I'm in my mid-40s and am an established engineer. MSME degree. P.E. I'm paid well and don't really have any complaints about engineering. Married w/two adolescent kids. No mortgage, no debt. I have an itch to go to medical school to become a plastic surgeon. This seems like a very severe pivot in my life and I know it would not be easy. But the itch is there. I have had an interest in that world for years, but only recently did a light bulb go on with an idea to become a surgeon. It would be roughly 4yrs of med school and 6yrs of residency. I'd have to save up the cash beforehand, since we don't do debt. I would likely have to quit working to do med school full-time. We would have to live off my wife's income, which will reduce our lifestyle significantly but not be impossible. My main question is whether this is wise or not, considering my age, my comfy engineering position, and the severity of the pivot in my life. I'm curious if anyone else here can relate or has a story to share about a similar experience.
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Considering Career Change to Medical Field 12
- Thread starter LS_SMS
- Start date
I actually prefer the lower stress level of not being in a managerial role. Maybe I'm remembering the good old days through unclear lenses, but as a manager, I don't get to do as much engineering as I would like.
As far as career changes, I know an individual that was married with kids, and then decided to go to college. He then decided to become a dentist. He told me how much he hated school before then and his wife thought he was nuts, but supported him in that endeavor.
There is no rule that says, "Once an engineer, forever an engineer."
As far as career changes, I know an individual that was married with kids, and then decided to go to college. He then decided to become a dentist. He told me how much he hated school before then and his wife thought he was nuts, but supported him in that endeavor.
There is no rule that says, "Once an engineer, forever an engineer."
We do know that roughly 30% of all engineering graduates are not working in their disciplines, whatever that implies.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
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- #43
I've seen/heard several claims that 90% of engineers never make management, which matches my experience pretty well. Personally I think the non-technical and management tracks are pretty miserable, the income potential is higher but there's no real engineering, less job security, and far more blaming and petty politicking. Given the unlikelihood of an engineering manager ever making the C-suite & big money, staying on a technical track up to senior engineer/fellow/tech steward/etc seem to be the sweet spot for balancing income, responsibility, and quality of work.
- Thread starter
- #44
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- #45
Interesting discussion. Personally I have never seriously considered a complete career change.
But I have a colleague who is a structural engineer with about 10 years experience. She took time off a few years ago to go to med school. I don't know exactly why since we haven't worked in the same projects for a while, and we don't work at the same office so we havent met recently. But knowing her, I suspect that the challenge might interest her.
From what I heard she spent a semester at school, then worked a while and then another semester at school. I happened to meet her manager last week and asked about how she was doing. According to him she has probably skipped med school now. She tried but after a while realized that it really wasn't "her thing".
Before going "all in" on a large life changing decision. Is there any way you can test? I think/hope![[smile]](/data/assets/smilies/smile.gif "[smile] [smile]")
everyone has interests outside of work. But personally, I don't think I would like to turn them into a career .
But I have a colleague who is a structural engineer with about 10 years experience. She took time off a few years ago to go to med school. I don't know exactly why since we haven't worked in the same projects for a while, and we don't work at the same office so we havent met recently. But knowing her, I suspect that the challenge might interest her.
From what I heard she spent a semester at school, then worked a while and then another semester at school. I happened to meet her manager last week and asked about how she was doing. According to him she has probably skipped med school now. She tried but after a while realized that it really wasn't "her thing".
Before going "all in" on a large life changing decision. Is there any way you can test? I think/hope
everyone has interests outside of work. But personally, I don't think I would like to turn them into a career .- Thread starter
- #46
Having read your original post, I can definitely relate and I have been there myself, as I'm sure everyone in the world can. However, a new perspective might be useful.
As far as I can tell you have three options:
Option 1) See this desire through. Give up your current job, go through the decade or more learning, grinding etc (including earning money now to pay off the fees). Finally achieve your dream to become a plastic surgeon, and feel relief that you fulfilled this desire. Then realise that you have just one more desire to fulfil. A nagging desire that you just can't let go of. Again. It will now become your new life mission to fulfil this one other desire and you will only feel relief when this achieved. In a few short moments you find yourself on your deathbed, compulsively replaying the stored memories in your brain, happy or unhappy about a particular desire that was either fulfilled or not (most likely not, since there is always one more desire, such is the mind of the human).
Option 2) Live with the regret of not attempting to fulfil your desire of becoming a plastic surgeon. Carry this negative feeling with you. Continue with your life, thinking that you have done what is right, but still have that image in your mind of what could have been, and how more satisfied/happy/fulfilled you could have been if only the stars had aligned slightly differently and you had not made that fateful decision X number of decades ago which has now permeated through your history and brought you to this situation, in which you feel regret and dissatisfaction.
Option 3) Observe, objectively and non-judgmentally, the desires that arise within your body and mind. They are simply a natural part of your evolution/creation, neither good nor bad, and there is no reason for you to get involved. Treat them like you would the hairs growing on your arm, and simply allow them to be.
There are desires (and fears) which have served this organism well in its survival, such as the desire for food/shelter, the desire for community, the desire to protect your family etc. However, we are at a point in time where these basic desires are mainly fulfilled, and yet the human body/mind cannot let go of its primal evolution and its psychotic compulsion to desire. With no basic desires left to fulfil, the mind has now projected its desire into the imaginary world. The desire for self fulfilment, career advancement, personal acknowledgment, the desire to be remembered etc.
My advice would be to simply let go of this desire, just like you would let go of a burning stone in your hand. And it doesn't even have to be for that long. Just do it for one week and see what happens. You can always pick up the burning stone again after this if you feel the need.
As far as I can tell you have three options:
Option 1) See this desire through. Give up your current job, go through the decade or more learning, grinding etc (including earning money now to pay off the fees). Finally achieve your dream to become a plastic surgeon, and feel relief that you fulfilled this desire. Then realise that you have just one more desire to fulfil. A nagging desire that you just can't let go of. Again. It will now become your new life mission to fulfil this one other desire and you will only feel relief when this achieved. In a few short moments you find yourself on your deathbed, compulsively replaying the stored memories in your brain, happy or unhappy about a particular desire that was either fulfilled or not (most likely not, since there is always one more desire, such is the mind of the human).
Option 2) Live with the regret of not attempting to fulfil your desire of becoming a plastic surgeon. Carry this negative feeling with you. Continue with your life, thinking that you have done what is right, but still have that image in your mind of what could have been, and how more satisfied/happy/fulfilled you could have been if only the stars had aligned slightly differently and you had not made that fateful decision X number of decades ago which has now permeated through your history and brought you to this situation, in which you feel regret and dissatisfaction.
Option 3) Observe, objectively and non-judgmentally, the desires that arise within your body and mind. They are simply a natural part of your evolution/creation, neither good nor bad, and there is no reason for you to get involved. Treat them like you would the hairs growing on your arm, and simply allow them to be.
There are desires (and fears) which have served this organism well in its survival, such as the desire for food/shelter, the desire for community, the desire to protect your family etc. However, we are at a point in time where these basic desires are mainly fulfilled, and yet the human body/mind cannot let go of its primal evolution and its psychotic compulsion to desire. With no basic desires left to fulfil, the mind has now projected its desire into the imaginary world. The desire for self fulfilment, career advancement, personal acknowledgment, the desire to be remembered etc.
My advice would be to simply let go of this desire, just like you would let go of a burning stone in your hand. And it doesn't even have to be for that long. Just do it for one week and see what happens. You can always pick up the burning stone again after this if you feel the need.
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StrucPatholgst
Structural
You're only on this ride once. I feel sorry for folks who don't pursue their life's passion. Go for it.
Fischstabchen
Electrical
Strucpatholgst,
If this was a passion, I would say go all for it if it was feasible without too many sacrifices. It might not be that but often people think it is. I think that before someone does something like this, they really need to figure out what they are missing from their current occupation. It very well could be that switching jobs or companies fulfills what they are missing. More than a few times, I think I would have stayed where I was if I didn't have to deal with certain nonsense or got to work close by a really close group of guys and gals that I would consider good friends. I think people sometimes forget that they spend often more time with co-workers than family and if you are not fitting in or don't have a good group of pals, it can feel all very unfulfilling. People always talk about keeping coworkers at a distance because bad xyz things happened in the past but you spend way too much time around this people to only be half a person or have half a relationship. I think I would work a fruit stand if it would set me financially and I got to shoot the shit with friends everyday while working a chill job.
If this was a passion, I would say go all for it if it was feasible without too many sacrifices. It might not be that but often people think it is. I think that before someone does something like this, they really need to figure out what they are missing from their current occupation. It very well could be that switching jobs or companies fulfills what they are missing. More than a few times, I think I would have stayed where I was if I didn't have to deal with certain nonsense or got to work close by a really close group of guys and gals that I would consider good friends. I think people sometimes forget that they spend often more time with co-workers than family and if you are not fitting in or don't have a good group of pals, it can feel all very unfulfilling. People always talk about keeping coworkers at a distance because bad xyz things happened in the past but you spend way too much time around this people to only be half a person or have half a relationship. I think I would work a fruit stand if it would set me financially and I got to shoot the shit with friends everyday while working a chill job.
The converse, of course, is that you might bring your dissatisfaction with you to the new career, so that's something that requires serious consideration.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
- Thread starter
- #51
This is VERY good and thoughtful insight. Thank you for sharing. My wife, knowing me better than anyone else, applied a similar approach when I talked to her. She knows I have an interest in plastic surgery, but also knows that I have a thirst for achievement and tackling the next best thing. She challenged me to think deeply about how this would (if at all) satisfy the thirst/itch and if there'd be something else later that begins to itch.Euler07 said:
I agree with you 100%. I definitely face this issue and have been very open with my wife about it. I only had a few pals at my first engineering job 10yrs ago. I enjoyed being around them and we still chat occasionally. I left that job due to leadership problems. Since then, the lack of work buddies has become exceptionally apparent to me, in an unfavorable way; i.e., I have never had that good of an environment since. I'm working feverishly with my wife to fulfill that need for community in other ways though.Fischstabchen said:
Fischstabchen
Electrical
IRStuff,
The point is to try things that are low risk and low commitment first. So, he gets another job and 3 months into it, he realizes that that didn't fix anything. Or he realizes his med school pipedream was better just as fantasy. Going to med school might be the cure but god damn it would be nice if there was something cheaper and less committal that could be tried first.
The point is to try things that are low risk and low commitment first. So, he gets another job and 3 months into it, he realizes that that didn't fix anything. Or he realizes his med school pipedream was better just as fantasy. Going to med school might be the cure but god damn it would be nice if there was something cheaper and less committal that could be tried first.
Fischstabchen,
Yes, I understood the risk, since I even posted about that earlier; my point was to echo the sentiment that dissatisfaction is often disguised as something else, and often, one needs to do serious soul searching to identify whether the "grass is greener" ideation isn't just a manifestation of something completely internal
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
Yes, I understood the risk, since I even posted about that earlier; my point was to echo the sentiment that dissatisfaction is often disguised as something else, and often, one needs to do serious soul searching to identify whether the "grass is greener" ideation isn't just a manifestation of something completely internal
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
Yes, as you say, people feel dissatisfied with their situation and then look externally to try and find a cause of their dissatisfaction. Obviously in many situations there is a direct cause, such as suffering abuse. But for a normal situation the dissatisfaction comes from inside. If the internal problem is not resolved then it doesn't matter where or what you do, the negative feeling will follow you. The solution is to self-reflect and resolve the internal dissatisfaction, and in my experience the most powerful way of doing this is through non-judgmental acceptance. As the saying goes "accept this moment as if you had chosen it".IRstuff said:
LittleInch
Petroleum
Sometimes in long running posts you need to go back to the beginning.
"Wise" is an interesting word and invites a level of judgement from others which I think you've got here.
I think from what you've said your wife though is a very wise woman and knows you more perhaps than you do yourself.
Clearly the answer "No, Are you insane? Have you been drinking??" wouldn't work with you so she's going the more analytical route.
Realistically the challenges you face are substantial being:
Age - we're just not as able to do things as we get on in life as easy as we did.
Family situation - the little buggers cost you MORE as they get older not less
Cost of the tuition
Uncertain outcome - the market may have moved on by the time you get there, you cannot gain sufficient clients, you won't get to do what you want
Desire to change - Only you know how bright this flame is, but maybe its intensity will diminish as time goes on?
Or is this just a mega mid life crisis?
I think most of us have been there on the latter one. For me it presaged moving out from my comfortable, but increasingly managerial role into a start up consultancy which failed, but then I got to do what I'm actually good at which is technical engineering on a contract / consultancy basis and not all the managerial and selling stuff which I realised I'm not actually very good at.
Perhaps take a closer look at your current role / company / career track and decide to make a change there.
Probably better than deciding to be a plastic surgeon / astronaut / deep sea diver / racing driver or whatever else your itch turns to??
[Apologies for the slight sarcasm there....]
So "Wise?" It's not for me to say, but this is a judgement call only you can end up making with those around you who will be impacted by that decision.
Its been fun on this thread for sure and I do wish you all the best. I think I'm done now.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
M Ridzon said:
"Wise" is an interesting word and invites a level of judgement from others which I think you've got here.
I think from what you've said your wife though is a very wise woman and knows you more perhaps than you do yourself.
Clearly the answer "No, Are you insane? Have you been drinking??" wouldn't work with you so she's going the more analytical route.
Realistically the challenges you face are substantial being:
Age - we're just not as able to do things as we get on in life as easy as we did.
Family situation - the little buggers cost you MORE as they get older not less
Cost of the tuition
Uncertain outcome - the market may have moved on by the time you get there, you cannot gain sufficient clients, you won't get to do what you want
Desire to change - Only you know how bright this flame is, but maybe its intensity will diminish as time goes on?
Or is this just a mega mid life crisis?
I think most of us have been there on the latter one. For me it presaged moving out from my comfortable, but increasingly managerial role into a start up consultancy which failed, but then I got to do what I'm actually good at which is technical engineering on a contract / consultancy basis and not all the managerial and selling stuff which I realised I'm not actually very good at.
Perhaps take a closer look at your current role / company / career track and decide to make a change there.
Probably better than deciding to be a plastic surgeon / astronaut / deep sea diver / racing driver or whatever else your itch turns to??
[Apologies for the slight sarcasm there....]
So "Wise?" It's not for me to say, but this is a judgement call only you can end up making with those around you who will be impacted by that decision.
Its been fun on this thread for sure and I do wish you all the best. I think I'm done now.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
- Thread starter
- #56
LittleInch
Petroleum
Only one other thing that cam to me:
You are now not the young, free, person you were at 18-20.
You've made some decisions which then come with responsibilities, viz:
You got married - you have a responsibility to maintain your relationship.
You've decided to have children - you have a responsibility to bring them up as best you can.
You've bought a house - you have a responsibility to maintain it for the benefit of the two lines above if nothing else.
Those responsibilities are quite considerable compared to what will be your peers and your further decisions to follow your dream will have an impact on those responsibilities. Only you can judge if you can manage all those in a way which doesn't result in failing to uphold all those responsibilities.
Good luck in your thinking.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
You are now not the young, free, person you were at 18-20.
You've made some decisions which then come with responsibilities, viz:
You got married - you have a responsibility to maintain your relationship.
You've decided to have children - you have a responsibility to bring them up as best you can.
You've bought a house - you have a responsibility to maintain it for the benefit of the two lines above if nothing else.
Those responsibilities are quite considerable compared to what will be your peers and your further decisions to follow your dream will have an impact on those responsibilities. Only you can judge if you can manage all those in a way which doesn't result in failing to uphold all those responsibilities.
Good luck in your thinking.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
- Thread starter
- #58
Yes, thank you again. I'm fully aware of those obligations and responsibilities. My undergrad, my wife's undergrad, and my masters all had those 3 obligations and a 4th (i.e., we worked full-time jobs), in place while trudging through those rough times.LittleInch said:
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LittleInch
Petroleum
Wow, you have my utmost respect for doing that - it can't have been easy. I can say I wouldn't have done that....
Key question is do you want to do it all again though?
But you seem to know all that so I'll leave you to do some thinking and talking.
Good luck again.
LI
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
Key question is do you want to do it all again though?
But you seem to know all that so I'll leave you to do some thinking and talking.
Good luck again.
LI
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
My Lyme doctor left a good career, in her mid-40's, to go to naturopathic school. She left her engineering career mainly due to poor retirement vehicles at the time. She is smart and did well in her medical classes but the struggles presented were hard. Money was a big problem.
There are times she has expressed regret at making the career change; however, she has really enjoyed helping people directly, which was hard for her to see in an engineering career. The regret is the debt incurred, with the career change. She's still paying off school loans almost 20 years later.
She tried starting her own practice. That was hard because she didn't understand how to market herself. She ultimately joined another practice and has done quite well there. She found her niche in Lyme disease, mold exposure, gut health, etc. She loves what she does but the financial thing has been a problem.
You'll find your way, with the help of your wife and kids.
Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
NSPE-CO, Central Chapter
Dinner program:
There are times she has expressed regret at making the career change; however, she has really enjoyed helping people directly, which was hard for her to see in an engineering career. The regret is the debt incurred, with the career change. She's still paying off school loans almost 20 years later.
She tried starting her own practice. That was hard because she didn't understand how to market herself. She ultimately joined another practice and has done quite well there. She found her niche in Lyme disease, mold exposure, gut health, etc. She loves what she does but the financial thing has been a problem.
You'll find your way, with the help of your wife and kids.
Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
NSPE-CO, Central Chapter
Dinner program:
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