Career/Education Choice 2

[JC1]

I have been working with 3-d modeling for the past 5 years doing product design work. Previous to this I was a machinest for a couple of years. I completed a Vo-Tech Degree for machining and I have completed most of my general education classes toward a degree. I am currently enrolled in a mechanical engineering program. I work full time and go to school part time, hence this education is going to take some time, roughly 5-6 more years to complete. I am currently 32 years old and am considering switching to a industrial technology degree because I can complete it in about 2 years. The college with this degree will accept my vocational classes, which cuts my time way down, also there are no 4 hour credit courses required to complete this degree. I am currently taking calculus 1 for the second time and wondering if I am cut out for mechanical engineering. I am assuming upper mech. eng. courses are just as difficult. I would greatly appreciate some advice. Thanks.

 

[JeffdlS]

Well, I can tell you this, most engineers do not use Calculus out in the real world. Of course, I'm sure someone will pipe up and say that they do As for the upper ME classes being harder, I think that most degrees have the lower classes that are harder, thus "weeding out" some people. The upper level classes are usually more intense, and I think more fun, than the lower level classes. But the real question is this:"What do you want to get out of your degree?" I've known people with an industrial technologu degree & people with an ME degree. With both situations, some were happy, some were not. But ultimately, it's up to you to decide. Do you think getting an ME degree would be better for you than an IT degree? It's all up to you and that's what's so grand

JeffdlS

 

[brad]

JC1--
I've got to strongly disagree with some of Jeff's points on this one. I don't mean to pour water on your ambitions, but if you are taking calc one for the second time (presumably because you had trouble the first time around), you may not be cut out for a mechanical engineering degree.

I won't argue about whether or not engineers actually use their coursework in industry (in fact I do at a VERY high level). This is a moot point. You are working towards getting a BSME. In order to do that, more than half of your classes will entail indepth applications of calculus in all its forms. If you can't hack calculus, you're going to have a very hard time graduating with a BSME. It doesn't matter whether you actually USE these courses; you have to pass them in order to graduate.

Are there ME-Technology degrees around there that you could instead consider? I am not a fan of MET's, but realistically that may be more up your alley.

I will agree with Jeff's question "what do you want to get out of this?". A valid answer to that, along with these comments, may help you sort out your path.

Good luck,
Brad

 

[Ron]

I would tend to agree with Bradh...further, if you desire to become licensed, the technology degree will not get you there. Unfortunately, not all engineers are required to be licensed. My personal opinion is that they should be licensed.

If you want to practice in a public realm, where your services are offered to the public (such as HVAC design, fire protection design or similar) you will need to be licensed. If you intend to work "captive" in industry, licensing is less prominent, though many employers require it anyway.

 

[jproj]

I guess I'll be that second piper... I will say that I don't use calculus daily, but I still do use it and I can guarantee that you will to (as brad mentioned) even if it's only in your upper level classes. Personally, I though I wasn't going to use all that math either (we were required to take Calc. 1, 2, 3 and differential equations), but I was wrong and could not have finished my degree with out it.

Best of luck!

jproj

 

[elecmec]

A working person persuing a degree must consider his options. Are you satisfied with your company, and do you want to find a better position with that company. If this is you goal, check with you HR group, if the IE degree will get you where you want to go. If your company pays for your education and have planned positions for you goal, your in. But if you intend to find a job with another company, having a degree goes a long way in finding that job. Experience helps only if it is needed by your employer. A person with shop experience will make a better designer than someone without that experience. Your company wants to know how you can help them. There goal is to stay competative and if your efforts are valuable to them. I have worked for a company that promotes from within first. As a result, most engineers were familiar with the product and solved problems quickly. Every company is different, and if you company (people in management positions) values you as an employee, they will offer all the help they can.
Elecmec

 

[TD2K]

JC1, you might want to look around for a tutor if you are having problems with Calculus 1. I'm 'assuming' this is sort of entry level calculus.

This isn't intended to scare you off but I found first year general calculus fairly easy, first year engineering calculus a lot harder but not bad yet I really struggled with 3rd Chemical Engineering calculus when we got into 2nd order partial differential equations of the non-standard type. I don't ever want to take that course again. Our whole class (well, except for a couple that should have been going for their mathematic's degree ) struggled with that course. I think they had to shift the pass mark downwards significantly as too many flunked the final and we didn't have many slackers in our class, they never made it past first year.

Like I said, I don't want to scare you off but get a REALLY good grasp on it now, you'll need it in later courses.

 

[melone]

Calculus wasn't half as bad as Differential Equations!

 

[a3a]

JC1

At age 32, maybe step back and see if your algebra, trig, and goemetry is what is causing you problems in calculus 1. I took pre-calculus my first semester in college even though I didn't technically need it as a pre-requisit (sp?). Taking pre-calculus really solidified all the algebra, trig, geometry, important functions and their graphs, that are essential to calculus, as well as being able to use and *really* understand my calculator and its limitations. I think taking this course at the college level was probably the best thing I did for my self because highschool didn't really drive things home or express the importance of certain topics. The result: I was able to focus my attention and learning to the topics of calculus rather than being destracted by a weak understanding of algebra and trig like many of my classmates. This solid math background definately carried me though physics and every thing else ( chemistry wasn't math intensive). I may have gone a little overboard during my math classes, because I never wanted anything to get by me.

So, I'll agree with Bradh in his effort to exemplify the importance of calculus whether or not you use it in your career. However, don't let Bradh "pour water on your ambitions." I know he wasn't trying to, but perhaps you just bit off more than you can chew.

So I will also repeat some of what other said.

1. Find a tutor before it gets to late
2. Establish a relationship with your professor to ask questions when you get stuck.
3. Work in small groups with people at or above your same level after and be able to explain to them why you did what you did on problems.
4. Understand that all your math classes are going to require a fair amount of time and effort, this is true even for those who thought the class was easy!
5. Work and study dilligently throughout the ENTIRE course!!
6. Take as many general education classes that you can in the SUMMER. Since working and going to school at the same time, I can garauntee that you will wish you didn't have to read American History AND finish your engineering homework.
7. Consider finding a way to cut down your hours at your full time job. Easy to say if don't have a family, but it would help if you can.

Good Luck.

 

To me it sounds like it will take a lot and time energy from your personal life to complete and give the ME program the focus it deserves. The ME degree will pack more of a punch than the idustrial tech degree for your career goals but everyone has different priority levels. Finish Calc. 1 and take a look at what it will take from you to finish the ME degree and choose what will make you happiest as a person. Take care.

 

[DaveVikingPE]

I loved Differential Equations!

I remember sitting in a grad-level Ocean Wave Theory class as the professor finished showing us the derivation of cnoidal wave theory. "...of course, this is the ellipcial cosine..." without a solid background in boundary value problems/partial differential equations and a lot more math - which I did not have - I struggled through that class. It was really hard and I found out that, guess what, knowing how to solve 3D partial differential equations is pretty darn important. Do I use that every day? Yes and no.

... Now, a lot of professors like to "mess" with students at the undergrad level, probably because they hate them, and a great way to do this is through testing the class on the derivation of (or proving) the various engineering equations we do, in fact, use every day (like I = bh^3/3, or worse). In order to survive, you've got to be excellent at math. My opinion is that it is not hard to become excellent at math provided you devote the right amount of time to it when you're taking those courses. Try to do ALL the problems in the book, not just the ones the prof. assigns. You will be come very fast at the math much to your benefit. If you need help, there is an excellent book called "Calculus the Easy Way" - I forgot the author - that is like having a lecturer with you on-demand, all the time. It has a lot of problems as well as really good explanations that will supplement any calc text out there. Also, as a3a implies, your algebra, geometry and trig must be perfect to conquer calculus.

If you want to become an engineer, they go for it! Never give up! It is a lot of hard work, and the pay off is, well... Put it this way: Mike Bloomberg, the Mayor of New York City is a degreed Electrical Engineer and he's done all right for himself. Engineering

 

[Haf]

JC1,

The question you need to ask yourself is "What do I want to do?" In my opinion, there is a large difference between a technology degree and an engineering degree. With a technology degree, more emphasis is put on understanding technology itself (things like capabilities, limitations, manufacturing processes, etc). With an engineering degree, more emphasis is put on understanding the fundamentals of the science(s) (math, chemistry, physics, etc.) that drive technology. Engineers, however, are not scientists (chemists, physicists) per se, as they still need to have a good understanding of technology (i.e., how science is practically applied). So, in a way, engineers are a mix between scientists and technologists.

As a result of this, engineers generally come out of school with a solid background in science, but a limited understanding of its practical application. The good news is you build this understanding through experience, and with an engineering background you are well-equipped to build significantly on that understanding. That is because you not only know how to use a given technology, but you also understand how and why it works.

On the flip side of that, a technologist has a good understanding of technology right out of school. But he/she is not as equipped to move "beyond" the technology itself to the underlying science. As a result, upward mobility (and salary) with a technology degree is more limited and job duties may not be as interesting and challenging.

Now, to thoroughly understand science (chemistry, physics, and almost any branch of engineering), you HAVE to have a thorough understanding of calculus and differential equations. Don't think that you can get through Calc I and then never worry about calculus again! Calculus will come back to haunt you in almost every physics and engineering class you take. To be honest, you can probably get through engineering without understanding calculus, but at great cost. You'll just have to do a lot of memorizing. In other words, you'll be memorizing equations and solution methods for particular problems. With a solid understanding of the math (calc and diff eq), you'll be able to derive the equations themselves and you'll truly understand how to go through the solution process. A good professor will set up exams to test understanding. With a lazy professor, you'll be able to get by with memorization. BUT, if you go through college by the memorization process, it is highly likely that you'll get exposed at some point in your career (if you stay technical).

Wow, I'm really rambling now. To sum up, I would not say that your later engineering classes will be "harder" than the math you are taking now. However, those classes will test your understanding of concepts you learned in previous classes. If your understanding is good, the advanced classes will be much easier.

In other words, make sure you can handle the math. It will never go away.

Haf