Caterpillar ECM and controller 1

[johngladstone]

Dears
It is my pleasure to be in touch with you

I need support from you for some questions to clarify the idea at me.

1 - Flash file and configuration file done for ECU or for controller?
We get Power wizard controller 2.0, which file put inside? is it, flash file or configuration file? and according what? controller serial no or engine serial no?

2 - in electrical drawing ECU for 2800 where is the terminal for j1939 to wire it into controller?

3 - is it possiblle to use power wizard used one into another genset Like GEP 165?

4 - in the register address of power wizard there is fuel, oil and air filter differential pressure was available, is it available at ECU or need to program?

5- please can you advice me for sensors available to purchase from Perkins manufacturer to put it at inlet and outlet of filers.?to connect the out put of them into controller to monitor its condition ?
We get another Perkins series 400, 1100, 1300

I appressiate in advance for your feedback
Best regards
John gladstone

 

[catserveng]

I can provide a brief set of answers now, will sit down later tonight with some more detail,

The "Flash File" is the base firmware for the controller itself, you load a new flash file to upgrade or repair the panel firmware.

The "Field Replacement File" is the configuration setup file for your particular application, so its a combined file of all your programmable settings.

There is a compatibility matrix, I do not have access to, the little units weren't my thing, the defines which engine models and feature sets go with available firmware levels.

Power Wizard can be used on other gensets, but may not have all the features available, since there are some differences in J1939 mapping.

A lot of the Power Wizard parameters are available only if the engine ECM supports those parameters.

Do you have the Power Wizard Technical Manual and the software tool?

MikeL.

 

[johngladstone]

Thank you mikel,

As you explaining
The flash file and configuration file done for controllers such as power wizard, Emcp.
Isn't it?

What is name of software installed on ECU?

What is function of matrix compatibility?
I get website address called Epss.cat.com
The files inside it for what?
For controllers or for ECU?

If power wizard get many parameters
How can make ECU support these parameters?
How can I know the recent J1939 mapping so upgrade the ECU into support some parameters?

Actually I looking to extract following data from ECU :- fuel, oil, air filter differential pressure datalink from ECU to monitor the filters conditions using modbus .
Is it possible?

If we get small gensets and I need to monitor the filters, is there possible to install sensors before and after it and connect into power wizard at analog points of power wizard?

Yes I get power wizard manual.

Thank you mikel

 

[catserveng]

Configuration files are typically the settings files for things the end user can adjust. The "flash files" is essentially the operating system for the hardware, and with it defined parameters for what it communicates with and how. You have lots of control over the configuration files, you have no control over the flash file, it is all within the control of the manufacturer of the controller.

The ECU (or ECM depending on what the manufacturer wants to call it) is under the control of the engine builder. ECM files are tightly regulated and require validation by various organization for mostly air pollution compliance, but also things like safety and reliablity (like ABS, FM or DNV type certifications).

Engine ECU software also has two parts, a flash type file that sets the fixed programming of the ECU, and the configuration files for end user adjustable settings. There are usually two versions of the software (in CATERPILLAR's case there are three) one for end users or thrid party service vendors, and the dealer or authorized service provider version.

Power Wizard is a software package for the controller only, at least as far as I know. It allows you to install factory generated flash files when needed, but you can't make any changes to those files. It also allows you to modify customer parameters/settings and save a file for backup or reference. The software usually also has a functions to do better monitoring of parameters, such as see multiple parameters at once, and in some cases trend or log them.

The software for the Perkins engines is called EST (Electronic Service Tool), I'm sure of haw many versions of this software there is, I know for sure a customer version is available, but is limited to only changing customer parameters, in some cases I don't think it can download a flash file to the engine ECU. EST it actually the same software platform as CAT ET, your licensing determines how much capability you end up with.

The compatibility matrix(s) is a set of documentation that helps determine which versions of the controller firmware will work with what engine ECU flash files.

If you're looking for additional capability from your controllers with existing engines, you really do need to work with your servicing dealer.

The hardware platform for the Power Wizard does support Modbus RTU output, but I don't know if your flash file supports using that output and what parameters it makes available to the Modbus mapping, again you dealer is who you need to talk with on that.

Hope that helps, MikeL

 

[johngladstone]

Mikel I appressiate for your clarifications.

Kindly can you provide me the matrix compatibility?

From where can get flash files and replacement files for controller?
From where can get flash files and replacement files for ECU?

Best tegards
John Gladstone

 

[catserveng]

I no longer have access to CAT or associated product files, your only source for the information requested is the servicing dealer. If the dealer is not helpful, I would suggest you contact CAT or FG Wilson directly (I'm assuming these are FG WIlson packaged units if it has Power Wizard installed).

MikeL.

 

[johngladstone]

Ohk mikel can you provide me contact address for fg Wilson.?

Matrix compatibility is available at cat website? Please can you tell me the names of this files?




As you said you are full right I didn't get any helpful from cater service.

Best regards
John gladstone

 

[BrianPetersen]

What is the "big picture" of what you are attempting to do?

Do you have an engine that doesn't run, and you are attempting to get it to run?

Do you have an engine that you bought from a scrapyard or some such place, that didn't come with the matching controller, and you are trying to get it to run?

Are you trying to make this piece of equipment work together with something that it was never designed to do?

That sort of thing. What's "the big picture".

 

[johngladstone]

Hi Brian,
Actually I looking to upgrade the gensets available to extend filters replacement time by change from time based maintenance into condition based maintenance by monitor the conditions of filters (fuel, oil, air) by benift from modbus register addresses available in power wizard version 1.1 into 3 or Emcp 4.2

By following way :-
Connect external gateway work on modbus protocol into modbus of controller to send alarms
After activate Canbus using J1939 terminal to connect from ECM into controller.

My job steps plan is as as follows :-
1 - upgrade the controller into one version mension above.
2 - connect j1939 from ECM into controller ( canbus terminal) then using modbus terminal to monitor.
3 - make check that ECM support the filters parameters monitoring
By upgrade ECU program to support the monitor requirement.

From benefit point of view of manufacturer they will hesitate to support me for jobs plan above.



So I develop two main questions parts as follows :-
Part 1 :-
1 - Where is j1939 terminal from J1 to connect into canbus terminal of new controllers?
2 - upgrade ECM monitoring software to monitoring paramerts?

Part 2 :-
For gensets not using ECM
is it possible to install two sensors at each oil and fuel filters then coonect into analog points of controllers
Then extract data by modbus for alarming conditions?
I looking advice for proper pressure sensors type to use it


Hope this make my point clear

Best regards
John Gladstone

 

[catserveng]

I think you may be better served to come up with your own instrumentation package rather then trying to develop a system across a mixed fleet. I have dealt with similar situations many times over the last several years. You want to push maintenance intervals out based on a CBM type strategy, most dealers or manufacturers usually are not helpful in those programs, at least in my experience. I have a lot of customers in oil and gas, marine and power generation applications who have decided doing their own monitoring, was way less painful than trying to deal with getting the engine manufacturer supplied systems to do what they want, especially in mixed fleets.

So you want to do lube and fuel oil filter differential and air cleaner restriction, correct? I really think you'll find using your own sensors and a small analog to Modbus input module will do you just fine, then you can take the information into your SCADA platform and do what you want with it. I have used the ADAM-4117 analog modules for those kinds of applications with good results.

https://www.advantech.com/products/1-2mlc85/adam-4117/mod_9161079d-563c-428c-8df4-aa29fffa995d

I have a number of customers who like the Acromag products and have used them with good results as well,

https://www.acromag.com/catalog/103...io/modbus-rtu-io-modules/modbus-rtu-analog-io

This also lets you pick an appropriate range sensor that you can use across you fleet so you don't have a bunch of different scaling factors across your units.

MikeL.

 

[waross]

Compare KWHrs produced or delivered with running hours x max kW.
eg: for a 1000 kW set and a rated service interval of 500 Hours that is 500,000 KWHrs between service intervals.
Look at the actual kW Hrs produced in 500 hours of running and compare to 500,000 KWHrs.
I don't recommend using a simple ratio but this will give you an idea of how hard the set is working.
Can you suggest service intervals based on output, Mike?
By the way, I wouldn't automate this, monitoring and doing periodic hand calculations gives you the ability to add some judgement into the equation.
For instance; if you had a period of high ambient temperatures coinciding with higher than normal loading and higher than normal engine temperatures, you may not want to extend your oil change interval quite as much.
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

 

[johngladstone]

@catsereng
You fully understand to me.. What I looking for

Actually I get confuse for two different roads
First one :-
Upgrade the software of ECM to support parameters of differential pressure if it not support but after I make confirm that it not support then connect into power wizard version 2.0 and then using modbus.
I just make activate for parameters.

Or second road :-
By install sensors ( I don't know the specifications of sensors to install then connect into external modbus convertor?


You give me hope to continue in this project.

My plan to do first road for gensets using ECM
And second road for gensets which not using ECM

If I follow first road it will be lowest in capix cost, more economic and more reliable for client. Just make setting in software adjusting.
But I don't know the steps to do it. Because as you said the manufacturer and supplier refuse to support me.

Do you have any case studies you do for project for client for same idea?
Are you do before any ROI for this project?
Kindly can you attach it

Have nice a day
John Gladstone

 

[enginesrus]

https://www.deif.com/products/agc4

Found this, is this something that could help?

 

[FreddyNurk]

enginesrus, there are a number of companies (Deif, Woodward, ComAp) that have devices that do that, although they're all dependent on being able to access the CANBus interface to provide the data.

An AGC for just data acquisition is probably overkill though, if going that way then might as well hand over most of the controls to that device. For what its worth, that is the approach that I would take though, buy a device capable of providing the interface to the J1939 data, and then use it to do the monitoring. Most of those devices will also allow for their own instrumentation to be connected (extra temperature / pressure probes etc) in addition to whatever the engine might already have. Its not worth doing on prepackaged generators most of the time though, you're better off to buy the generator with the desired kit to start with.

The PowerWizard device makes it more complicated then, as something like the AGC can often replace it completely, rather than provide additional capabilities.



EDMS Australia

 

[johngladstone]

Dears gentlemen,

Thank you very much for your input
Is there any case study passing on you to enhance the idea?
Is there schematic electrical layout drawing you get manifest the terminal of j1939 at ECM from J1?

Are companies mention above provide sensors operate at Canbus protocol or change whole the controls ECM and controller into them product?

Please advice
Best regards
John gladstone