CCI Valve Parts 2

[ValveVoodoo]

There have been many changes in the availability of replacement valve parts for power plants. I am looking for alternative sources other than the OEM for parts. The "doing more with less" philosophy is forcing me and my colleagues to find other sources for valve parts. In particular I am looking for someone who can make CCI Valve parts, other than CCI. Their prices are out of control and we need another source. Any help is appreciated. We have tried Gemoco, a great company by the way, but they can not make the disk stacks.

 

[jsummerfield]

Drag valves are a bit unusual. Try Cor-Val in Houma, LA. I think they may be owned by T3 Energy Services. Look for the T3 we site first.

John

 

[JimCasey]

Yes, CCI parts are expensive, So are the other name-brand valve company's parts. That's because the manufacturer has to develop the part, maintain engineering records, material controls,ISO9000 programs, Manufacturer's warranty, and assume legal responsibility for the parts. And yes, the stockholders expect a profit. The valve maufacturer probably had to discount the valve down to around cost to sell it to you in the first place, and parts sales is probably the only way he will ever make any money on the valve.

If you start swapping out OEM parts with parts that you get from the back of somebody's Pontiac that look sorta like the OEM parts: They MAY have the same dimensions, and they MAY have the same materials and they MAY have the factory spec heat treatment, and they MAY have used the factory spec weld procedures, and they MAY have the factory spec surface treatment, but that ain't the way to bet. If you have a name-brand valve that's giving you trouble, and the factory service tech comes in and finds pirate parts in it, you're going to lose the warranty on every valve on your site, if not in your whole corporation.

You used the example of CCI valves. I will admit I have NEVER heard ANYBODY talk about how well he was treated in dealing with them, but the reason anybody buys a CCI valve is for a CRITICAL SERVICE. Failure of a critical service valve can result in property damage, injury, massive and prolonged economic damage to the facility, or even death. If you save $10,000 on a CCI trim stack and it costs you a $10M liability judgement, you are not financially ahead.

Pirate parts are NOT worth it. Anybody who uses pirate parts is extremely short-sighted and is assuming a huge risk.

Forgive me for being so blunt. I have been in the valve business for a lot of years, and I have had to clean up a lot of messes that were caused by somebody substituting pirate parts for OEM parts. It's hard enough to make consistent high-quality parts with trained technicians reading a set of controlled drawings and working within an ISO program. Staking people's lives on parts produced in "Bubba and Earl's machine shop and video rental" is just plain nuts.

 

[jsummerfield]

Be blunt if you wish.

Bubba started Cor-Val, got ISO-900x certified and sold valves and valve parts to many of the major refinery and chemical plants along the Mississippi River. When a plant has a major shutdown theyneed part then, not later. The business could deliver parts that the manufacturers could not. This is a pretty big shop with big modern machines. The majors would not buy from a machine shop if they got good service from the manufacturer.

Besides, some oil field choke and similar valve designs in the market were developed in the 1830's. The valves and parts are available from multiple suppliers.

John

 

[rmw]

Not all pirates are created equal. OEM's make a product that is going to be bought on a competitive bid basis, so it, no matter what level of quality it attains, is built to be the cheapest thing they can get out the door, and still meet the spec., the performance and the warranty.

In the process of doing that they make some great products, and some lemons. The CCI's of the world, while their interpersonal skills may bear discussion (I have a project with a major issue with them at this very moment) made some excellent equipment that met some horrendous applications.

But this is about pirates. Some OEM's think that just because they built it, they are the last word. Besides just having lower prices, because they don't have a lot of the responsibilities that JCasey brings out, pirates often get their toe hold because they are redesigning a product to meet a deficiency that the original design had.

At this stage of the game, the low cost leader that was bought when the project was built is not working, and it is costing big bucks in the form of lost production, high maintenance, etc.. Price is not always the issue, rather, improving the mousetrap is what propels pirates into the marketplace. Service is another, and is addressed well by JSummerfield. Otherwise the Cor-Val's of the world couldn't exist.

I have even seen OEM's reluctantly change their products because the popularity of the pirate's designs drove them to do it after they said they couldn't and wouldn't.

Some pirate firms are started by individuals who leave an OEM because the OEM won't get off of the low cost bandwagon and build the quality that the market place is willing to pay for good performance and service.

So, while one still has to be careful, pirates can serve a useful function. Don't write them off out of hand. They can serve a useful function.

rmw

 

[nsessions]

Have you considered retrofitting new internals? Provided that the body and bonnet are in good shape you can fit a new stack, plug and seat with none of the problems of pirated parts - at a fraction of the cost of a new valve. Even CCI retrofit their trims in other valve manufacturers' bodies! Try Mitech for their disk stack that has the advantage that it can be disassembled for cleaning.

 

[stanier]

A lesson for us all perhaps is that when making an assessment of a valve supplier one should consider the cost of replacement spare parts. Perhaps the procurement people should lock in the spare parts price for ten years. Then when you do your commercial assessment the likes of CCI would perhaps not look as attractive. On the other hand if you do still need their severe service valve you know what itsw going to cost for the next ten years.

I recommended to a client that they build into a supply contract a "no fault" spare parts supply & fit clause for five years. This was to overcome the practices of those suppliers who would sell a pump on abrasive service at an initial low price and then slug the company for spare parts. This resulted in the pump selection being the correct speed with wear resistant materials rather than the small frame high speed unit that would have eaten up a lot of spares. Ultimately the cost saving to the company of reduced downtime and increased reliability far outweighed the cost of spares.

As engineers we all have to contend with the "beanies" (bean counters) so we have to be imaginative with our contracts to get the quality product where it is necessary. Many companies have a dogma of life cycle costing but ignore that when a bargain is on offer.

You will find that the accountants of the world are generally bullies, and thus cowards. If you have a problem of insufficient funds to maintain a plant take the failed part and the file, put it on their desk and then tell them its now their problem as you cant fix it with the money they give you! They will soon run from the problem and find the funds.

DONT LET THE "BEANIES" PUSH YOU AROUND

 

[NGiLuzzu]

Not only initial investment costs must be considered, but the whole life cycle costs. Unfortunately, the trend of Industry and Company Managers is to live for the middle and/or short period, without any long term forecast or planning...
So I do agree with stanier.

Bye, 'NGL

 

[jagcon]

Here here Jim Casey! Pirated parts will catch up to individuals sooner or later. As a chief engineer I would want to know that my plant is safe and I would trust that due to their training, my junior engineers will make the right decisions when replacing critical items. After the first step into the pirated, bootlegged and copied world has been taken it would be easy to start using bootlegged parts for all equipment. Would you feel comfortable for example if you knew that some of the critical parts in the Rolls Royce engine of the the plane that you were currently flying in came from "Bobs Jet Essentials"?