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cell phone usage in a refinery plant
- Thread starter mcinco50
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Cell phones are safe if: You do not disconnect the battery in a hazardous location. The standards for being clasified intrinsically safe madate that any electrical connection that can be seperated must have a mechanism to shield the contacts from the atmoshere and that it takes a physical action to disconnect. Look at your test equipment and radios, all the battery disconnects are shielded and communication ports have a twist on/off connection.
The reason there are few intrinsically safe cell phones (I've seen them advertised) is that there is no money in it. It takes a lot of time and effort to have a devise certified that most cell phone makers don't need to cell phones. By the time a cell phone gets certified, it will be two generations out of date and the public won't buy it.
The same goes for non flash cameras, pda's, it's a silly as those devices on an airplane. In europe, cell phones are allowed during flight.
The reason there are few intrinsically safe cell phones (I've seen them advertised) is that there is no money in it. It takes a lot of time and effort to have a devise certified that most cell phone makers don't need to cell phones. By the time a cell phone gets certified, it will be two generations out of date and the public won't buy it.
The same goes for non flash cameras, pda's, it's a silly as those devices on an airplane. In europe, cell phones are allowed during flight.
"In europe, cell phones are allowed during flight"
Not at all! No cell phones allowed at any time during flights in Europe, even though Myth Busters recently demonstrated (as far as they were allowed) that they most probably do no harm.
Cell phones are also not allowed in refineries, first of all because they can cause sparks, secondly (certain refineries only) because of concerns of interference with plant instrumentation. However some refineries do allow use of explo proof cell phones. Note by the way that cell phones with built in cameras may not be allowed because of the camera.
Not at all! No cell phones allowed at any time during flights in Europe, even though Myth Busters recently demonstrated (as far as they were allowed) that they most probably do no harm.
Cell phones are also not allowed in refineries, first of all because they can cause sparks, secondly (certain refineries only) because of concerns of interference with plant instrumentation. However some refineries do allow use of explo proof cell phones. Note by the way that cell phones with built in cameras may not be allowed because of the camera.
Rocks cause sparks too. Cell phones do not cause sparks, there are not sparking devices in a cell phone. A person can take a 9V battery and make a spark with a paperclip. A person could make a spark with a rock.
As for instruments, none that I've seen work with microwaves. I've had to turn off my pipeline SCADA system when the big 100 ton cranes come around them because the crane transmitts load data via 900 MHz (close to microwave) transmitters. We pass some SCADA signals in the 900 to 2600 MHz areas all over town and not one cell phone bothers them.
Its all urban myths, like blowing up cars with cell phones.
Now, cameras are a no-no because of propritory data and companies don't want the lastest fad of having pictures of things that could be "bad" posted on the internet. This has been true forever.
As for instruments, none that I've seen work with microwaves. I've had to turn off my pipeline SCADA system when the big 100 ton cranes come around them because the crane transmitts load data via 900 MHz (close to microwave) transmitters. We pass some SCADA signals in the 900 to 2600 MHz areas all over town and not one cell phone bothers them.
Its all urban myths, like blowing up cars with cell phones.
Now, cameras are a no-no because of propritory data and companies don't want the lastest fad of having pictures of things that could be "bad" posted on the internet. This has been true forever.
Many flip cell phones include contacts that could cause a spark. Even the number pad could be a problem. Intrinsically safe cell phones area available.
Old DCS systems with poor shielding are affected by VHF/UHF radios below one watt.
Many urban myths exist. However, at least one incident in a plant is blamed on a cell phone when it rang while a technician had a rich enclosure open. I don't recall whether this was the MMS related to offshore. If so it would be easy to find. Other OSHA incidents are more difficult.
Old DCS systems with poor shielding are affected by VHF/UHF radios below one watt.
Many urban myths exist. However, at least one incident in a plant is blamed on a cell phone when it rang while a technician had a rich enclosure open. I don't recall whether this was the MMS related to offshore. If so it would be easy to find. Other OSHA incidents are more difficult.
dcasto, I just listed the concerns refineries have - they may be urban myths or not, but a safety engineer has to pick his battles and if there is no crowd in front of his office asking for permission to have non EX cell phones in the plant, he will not spend a second on the issue...
During my time in refining I remember we often got emails from the safety dept with pictures of blown up cars (probably suspect material from the internet and possibly urban myths as you wrote) to reinforce the idea, not the right atmosphere to challenge the whole idea. Challenging ideas is not easy anyway if it's corporate strategy to behave like a dinosaur
During my time in refining I remember we often got emails from the safety dept with pictures of blown up cars (probably suspect material from the internet and possibly urban myths as you wrote) to reinforce the idea, not the right atmosphere to challenge the whole idea. Challenging ideas is not easy anyway if it's corporate strategy to behave like a dinosaur
I understand completely. I don't want my employees carrying around their home cellphone in the plant talking on it and falling in a hole (not paying attention). So I them them thats the reason no cell phones. Here's what they brought me thats why the trurth is better.
One time the state DOT inspector wanted to take pictures of the DOT pipeline inside a chemical and they said no, he called home and a state hiway patrol came out and he got his pictures.
One time the state DOT inspector wanted to take pictures of the DOT pipeline inside a chemical and they said no, he called home and a state hiway patrol came out and he got his pictures.
The current status on the Minerals Management site suggests that it is unlikely that the cell phone caused the explosion that I mentioned.
I work in a refinery in Louisiana and cell phones are allowed in the refinery. Not everyone is given a radio so cell phones are a necessity. Contractors and directs use them.
Also, how could you here anything on a cell phone while in a unit? You should have ear plugs in over 85 decibels. This much noise makes it pretty hard to carry on an intelligent conversation.
I can never recall talking on the phone while in any of the units except for maybe WWTP or the Tank Farm.
Also, how could you here anything on a cell phone while in a unit? You should have ear plugs in over 85 decibels. This much noise makes it pretty hard to carry on an intelligent conversation.
I can never recall talking on the phone while in any of the units except for maybe WWTP or the Tank Farm.
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