Certified Drawing 1

[pdybeck]

Does anyone have any familiarity with "Certified Drawings". Is there a standard that defines these types of drawings. I've done a search and haven't really found anything yet. Any info is welcome.

Pete

 

[TheTick]

It sounds like the kind ofthing that would come from someone who wants to sound like they know what they are talking about but don't.

Perhaps drawings w/ PE seal?

 

[pdybeck]

Its a bit of a legacy thing where I work and something customers of ours request. I don't know the history of it. I don't know if its industry specific. Kind of agree with your statement...

Pete

 

[ctopher]

If it's a dwg for civil/arch or mech/nuclear, then yes a PE signature per Tick's suggestion.
It is the only type of "certified" dwgs I know of.

Chris
SolidWorks 07 3.0/PDMWorks 07
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 04-21-07)

 

[fcsuper]

Certified drawing can mean a lot of things, depending on the context. It's not a very common term these days in my own experience. I think I ran across one customer that required it one time, some 15 years ago.

Here's another thread on the topic: thread507-108530

Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA

http://sw.fcsuper.com/index.php

 

[11echo]

I work with "certificated" dwg.s alot! It is normally a vendor drawing of a piece of equipment and the certification is a grantee that the equipment to be shipped is fabricated exactly like the drawing. Case in point, when we need a pump we asked for certified dwg.s so we can design the foundation. And in some cases build the foundation to accept the pump before we actually have the pump in hand. So when we do get the pump we can expect to drop it in place with no problems! BUT if we do experience problems because of any mis-representation, any "fix" we have to do is paid for by the vendor! Hence the need for certified dwgs. on large expensive equipment. My $0.02 anyway. ...Mark

 

[fcsuper]

11echo, as stated, Certified Drawings is a term that can mean different things. It would seem that the use you described is related to PO clarification. You don't really need the certification from the vendor in order to not be responsible for errors in the product as long as there is a clearly stated PO.

Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
sw.fcsuper.com
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group

 

[palecactus]

i think "certified" means having people with the propper credentials sign off where needed.

 

[11echo]

fcsuper ...Well I don't do the purchasing too on projects, I normally do the design, compile material lists, and a bit of construction coordination. As I stated the term "certified dwg.s" is a request to the vendor that we want dwg.s we can build to, without physically having the equipment in hand, to be able to verify physical dimensions. This is pretty standard in my discipline and location.
YES I agree that the term "certified dwg.s" can mean other things to other disciplines, I'm only sharing what the term means to my discipline. And this happens a lot on larger projects, especially these days!

 

[pdybeck]

11echo,

Just wondering - Is it ever stated anywhere on purchase agreements exactly what "Certified Drawing" means, or is it more of an unspoken thing? The problem I may have is that when people use the term "Certified Drawing" they have a different idea of what it may mean when compared to someone else in the transaction. Over time, any proper understanding of what a "Certified Drawing" really is just goes down the drain. People end up walking around saying "Certified Drawing", "Certified Drawing" without a proper understanding of what it really is and what it means to all parties involved. I can't find a spec that defines what it is, and I'm not sure that it shows up on purchase agreements as far as what a "Certified Drawing" is. This whole nebulous definition is not in the best interest of anyone involved in the process, from customer to client. Without a proper definition of what this document serves, then under litigation who is decide when people just say "well I thought a "Certified Drawing" meant this... and the next guys says he thought it meant something different. How is it supposed to be decided what it is, if it is never pre-determined in the first place. That is somewhere I don't want to go, but sometimes customers insist they need a "Certified Drawing", when I am not sure anyone involved has the right undertanding. Clearly we don't want to turn down business and just as more clearly we don't want to leave ourselves in a pre-carious position if things weren't well defined. Does anyone else see the problems with this, or I am just weird?

Pete

 

[fcsuper]

Pete,

You aren't weird. The PO is the legal agreement between the two parties. United States and other countries have very specific laws regarding the legality of PO's.

If the PO isn't clear about a matter regarding the drawings, then having someone's signature on that drawing doesn't buy any protection. However, if the PO is clear, then having someone's signature on the drawing also doesn't buy any additional protection. From my limited perspective, it's kinda an exercise in futility.

Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
sw.fcsuper.com
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group

 

[BobPar]

"Does anyone have any familiarity with Certified Drawings".
Pete,
The term certified mainly applies to civil drawings in my experience. When I was working for a Civil Engineering firm all drawing being submitted for County approval had to be marked "Certified Drawing" and signed and stamped with the Engineer's PE stamp.
If you’re having a hard time understanding this, I would have the people you providing drawings to supply you with a document defining in their estimation what they mean by Certified Drawings.
I’m sure they would be pleased that you are concerned enough to ask them for this information, and show them that your company is interested in providing them a quality product.


Robert

 

[pdybeck]

Robert,

I am not having a hard time understanding anything. I understand the concept of a "Certified Drawing". I am amazed at the concept of everyone throwing the phrase around and never having a definition for it. I do not think I am weird (thanks for assuring me fcusper) - actually I think I am one of the ones that thinks clearly on the subject. We are not a a Civil Engineering Group. We don't deal with Civil Engineering items. We don't sign things with a "PE Stamp". The "PE Stamp" is generally a civil thing from what I know. We sell electro-mechanical products. We get requests from customers for "Certified Drawings". It seems like neither our group of employees interfacing with the customers or the customers themselves have a solid definition for what purpose these drawings serve. From the results of this thread it seems as if there is no standard anywhere that defines what a "Certified Drawing" is. If that's the case, then I think I will create our own and send that with the drawing files.

Pete

 

[pdybeck]

I should clarify... We design, manufacture, and sell electro-mechanical products.

 

[ewh]

In that situation, the only "certified" drawings that I have seen are those that are approved and released for production. They need to clarify what they are asking for.