Civil Engineering- Masters Degree Worth It? 1

[trey25624]

I'm probably echoing the thoughts on countless other threads, but i'm gonna ask the question nonetheless. I am a civil engineer, 9 years experience, with my PE. I do consulting work for a medium size company, mainly commercial developments.

Issue i'm having is i don't find the work interesting at all anymore. Considering going back to get a Masters in Civil Engineering, potentially environmental or geotechnical. I'm hoping this would expose me to some better opportunities on more interesting types of projects.

Has anyone gone through an civil engineering masters program and felt like it really helped make their career more interesting or fulfilling? At 30 years old i'm feeling very lost in my career, like i've hit a dead end. need some new direction! any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[HgTX]

I went to a master's program right out of college for reasons similar to yours--I looked at what I knew when I graduated and didn't think that any job I could get with only that much knowledge would be very interesting. I have no regrets.

Hg

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[abusementpark]

I did the master's program with structural emphasis concurrently with beginning my professional right after I got my bachelor's.

It is certainly a lot of work to put for a very small difference in pay (directly). However, I certainly feel like going through the program made me a better engineer and really galvanized my theoretical understanding. I feel very confident now in my visualization of structural behavior, and I can't begin to quantify how valuable that is for me on daily basis. However, I knew what I wanted out of the program and was able to do my best to tailor the curriculum to my specifics needs.

I'm sure how good of an idea it is to go to grad school with no specific direction or purpose. The most operative questions for you is: What do you want to do after you get the degree?

 

[racookpe1978]

I earned (and paid for out of pocket) an MS in QA back in 1998.

Fine, that's nice. I've been successfully hired since then for several various short-term (contract) jobs and am now with a larger power gen company full-time. I have never gotten the feeling that my salary was higher because of the MS, nor has it really affected my work or my assignments or raises since then. Then again, I did get hired with little or only trivil delays between work each time. So who knows?

On the other hand, we know that my wife's HS teaching salary (science, chemistry and AP chemistry, and physics) would have been substantially higher if she had used those dollars for her MS degree. Government workers get paid guaranteed higher salaries for their higher degrees.

Net? It would have been worth more (maybe) for her to have used those dollars.

 

[B16A2]

I got my SE after 6 years out of my BS (doing work in the commercial building arena) and am back full time. Based on what you describe, I recommend you do it and go the research route. It pays for everything, plus some, huge tax cuts, and you get an entirely different skillset. I already have job offers in areas I never dreamed I could have before.

I'm not sure geotech is a great path for opportunity though.

 

[trey25624]

Thank you everyone for you comments. seems like there is a pretty even split on this at times, yes its worth it, or no its not. sounds like the important thing is to know what you want. which is hard to know sometimes!

B16A2, your comment really caught my interest. so you did research while getting your masters? I'm concerned about going full time from a financial perspective, but it sounds like if you aid in research you can get paid to go to school?

 

[HgTX]

It's harder to get funding for MS than for PhD, but if you have good grades, good GRE scores, and good recommendations, it's possible to get funding. A research assistantship means they're paying you to do your MS thesis research. And they either waive your tuition or bump up the stipend to cover it (plus the additional taxes that a stipend large enough to cover tuition would be subject to).

Opportunity cost is the difference between a graduate student stipend and a real salary. Gain is the tuition that you don't have to pay out of pocket. Highly likely to be a net loss, but it may be worth it because it's a more effective educational experience to go full-time and not worry about trying to do the day job simultaneously, and you get done and on with your life a lot faster.

My stipend offers (which came in addition to tuition waivers) in 1997 ranged from around $10k to $18k per year. Not much, but to an undergrad living a student lifestyle it seemed like a lot at the time. Also, student loans are cheap money, if you're not allergic to debt.

I agree with those who say you need to go in with a plan--at least an area of specialization. If you go the research route, you probably won't have that much choice in which project you get assigned to, but you need to choose between environmental or geotechnical at least. Besides, you need to choose that anyway because different programs excel in different areas. The best geotech school may not be the best environmental school. (And you need to sound like you have a plan in your application essays, even more so if you're applying for funding.)

Hg

p.s. Speaking of funding and of application essays, if there's any way you can leave the door open to the potential of sticking around for a PhD, without actually lying or otherwise compromising your ethics, you stand a better chance of getting funding because if you don't rule out the PhD you are eligible for funding aimed at potential PhD candidates. They figure they might be able to change your mind about leaving after the MS.

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[B16A2]

I'm finishing my MS thesis as I type. In research you're basically working for a professor. He pays you in tuition remission and stipend (research assistantship). They even pay for health insurance. You take classes, but not as many as a straight coursework program. In research you're usually paid to go to conferences and present your work. Make tons of contacts

Coming in with a PE almost guarantees you funding and an leg up on all the other MS students. I started out being paid on a research assistantship but then transitioned when I won a fellowship and several scholarships.

I will also mention that not buying a house because of going back to school and investing in the market has been probably the best financial move I've made yet.

 

[beej67]

I have a Masters in Fluid Mechanics, and I learned a huge amount of very useful, very important theory in my program that I use every day in my line of work. I could not function as an "expert" without it. Getting my Masters was one of the best decisions I've made in my professional life.

My wife got her Masters in Construction Management from Stanford. I questioned its value versus its cost initially, but when she got laid off in 2009 and was hired again within a month, I no longer questioned it. "Stanford" pops on a resume if you're in the construction industry. She had two offers before she ever sent a resume out.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[trey25624]

beej67, thanks for the reply. very helpful.

funny you bring up your wife having a masters in construction management, i was just looking into that yesterday. i was kinda wondering if that was really worth the $$$ and effort. Part of the reason i was looking into it was it would give me a chance to get out of an office environment 100% of the time. does she enjoy her line of work? Is she stuck in an office all day? Does she have to work a lot of long construction hours?

 

[beej67]

I think you're pretty well stuck with long hours no matter what element of the construction game you're in, but I can give you my perspective on her professional jaunt -

She and I met at Georgia Tech in the undergrad Civil program. She interned with a local GC while at Tech, then went straight to Stanford for her masters, then came back to Atlanta and went to work for a larger more prestigious GC who did higher profile projects.

She was a project engineer, then an assistant project manager, both in the field. Didn't like the stress, requested to move back into the office in estimating. Was an estimator for a while, but had the bad luck to get transferred into the GC's retail division in early 08, which was basically a death sentence. Got laid off, and scooped up by a local construction management consulting firm that works clientside, sort of an owners-rep sort of company. She likes it too, but I've had to coach her on the general concept of "selling your time," because she's never been a consultant before. When you're working for a GC, you take the time to get things right, and are granted that time. When you're a consultant, you get it "as-right" as the time allotted, and make sure your client knows what he's getting in that time allotted, and let him know what more he could get if he wants to pay you to get it "more-right." This was a concept she struggled with initially.

Her position with her current firm is less hours, but occasionally the long weekends or long nights when a project (in her case estimate) is due. Sorta like we'd see in design work. When she was out in the field, she was basically on-site from sun up to sun down, but never worked weekends.

Working in construction is always hard, and always fairly unforgiving. If you don't love it, my advice is don't do it. I drove my first bulldozer (Cat D3) when I was 7 years old, and I still didn't end up in construction. It's also so prone to boom-bust cycles that it can be very taxing on a family. My dad and granddad were both in construction, and my dad used to say he could calibrate his calendar by how long he'd gone since being fired. Every 8 to 10 years, like clockwork, basically.

My professional advice is largely this - Do what you'll enjoy. However, if you want to be paid more, get closer to the money. The subcontractor makes less than the general contractor makes less than the owner's rep makes less than the owner's accountants and lawyers, who all make less than the owner. Something to think about.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[trey25624]

beej67,

thank you so much. some of the best insight / advice i've gotten in quite awhile. Truly appreciated. I have been longing to get out of the office environment (sitting in front of a computer screen all day), but realizing that getting into construction may not be the answer. i have worked on construction projects full time in the field before and long hours can be a drag. i think i just need to keep looking for something that gets me out of the office more. thanks again.

 

[stanier]

Why not go into business development/sales for a while. That will get you out of the office for sure without the remoteness, dirt, lack of facilities and distance from fine dining of a construction job.

As for long hours income=effort.

You may not need a masters degree to advance your learning. Sk your self how do you learn best? A lecturer in front, on the job or self taught reading? What works best for you is the method you should use or it will be a drag.

A masters degree, or equivalent, is needed to become a chartered engineer in Europe and other parts of the world (Australia) . It would a PE in the USA does not require such a level.

 

[atlengpe]

Not to hijack the thread, but what about a "project management certificate" geared for civil engineering professionals/senior students that are offered at many engineering schools including GA Tech where I live. Does anybody know if those are worth it? The only thing I fear with project management is having to be the guy that has to answer emails/calls all day.

Not to be a jerk, but I think that the recruitment center would probably know more about what's in demand right now and could help you out.

I'm seeing a lot of jobs for "energy efficiency engineers" whatever that is.. but it sounds interesting.

 

[atlengpe]

And in general, I'm wondering whether a list of "certificates" might be better than a masters in many cases? LEED cert, energy efficiency cert, certified roofing inspector, certified solar industry blah blah blah...

 

[trey25624]

Well i think i can answer a couple of your questions. concerning the project management certificate, i have considered the PMP (project management professional). My company is actually mandating that all project managers have this within the next couple years. So if you want to get into project management it is valuable. For me, i don't think i want to be in project management. Dealing with budgets, staff, etc. I've done it for a little awhile now and it isn't for me.

I am LEED certified, have been for over a year. it hasn't done squat for me. Part of the issue is there isn't much building going on so there isn't much of a need for it. So many people seem to have it now compared to when i started studying for it. I imagine that when hiring picks up that it will be seen as almost necessary by some design firms. but who knows.

So if your goal is to be a project manager at a civil design firm, i would do both.