Civil engineering technology bachelors degree and job outlook for this degree 12

[isonthejazz]

I was looking to go to school for civil engineering here in the states. I found that I would prefer to do the more "hands on" approach over the theoretical approach a PE would aquire. So that means a school program in engineering technology. I don't want just an associates and there is a school nearby that offers a bachelors in engineering technology with an civil engineering and design option:

http://www.ucmo.edu/technology/degrees/documents/ENGT.pdf

I am thinking of the job outlook at this point. Would anyone have any insight about the opportunities a program like this would help me get and would it help me get and keep a job in this economy?

 

[cvg]

I would advise against it

 

[gbam]

I'm with cvg. One can still obtain a standard civil degree then later their PE and still work in the field as a Resident Engineer. This approach will provide more options for you. Who knows you may like the design side of things. Or, there are many avenues one can specialize in like geotech, Structures (bridge) inspections etc. I suggest that you contact a few Civil Engineers and chat with them.

 

[civilman72]

It looks like a lot of the classes you would be taking are very similar to a standard civil engineering curriculum. Why go through four/five years of these classes if you aren't maximizing your options - particularly if this is not an ABET-Accredited program (I could not tell)? If you get an accredited B.S. degree in civil engineering, (I would think) you could get any job you would get with an engineering technology degree, but there are plenty of "civil engineering" jobs you will not be able to pursue with an engineering technology degree. Plus, you will almost certainly make a lot less money over the course of your career.

 

[isonthejazz]

What would be your suggestion then, an A.A.S. degree?

 

[civilman72]

I had to look up AAS degree to refresh myself:

"An AAS degree typically focuses on the knowledge a student needs to succeed in a particular job rather than providing credits to transfer toward a four-year degree."

Depending on the curriculum, this seems like a better idea than getting a four-year degree in engineering technology, particularly if you are not currently comfortable pursuing a BS in Engineering. Less time and less money to get you out in the field to see what you really want to do.

Good Luck.

 

[isonthejazz]

Ok, civilman72 just answered my question. Missouri S&T has an civil engineering program as well as an architectural one. I was considering archE until I ran into the technology program at UCM. From what I researched though is that a B.A.S. degree in civil tech gives you higher pay and a different title than a technician, applied engineer or technologist is the terms they use I believe. The more "hands on" approach is what I like most about the technician side of engineering. And in some states, I can sit for a p.e. certification after so many years doing it and taking the higher level math, physics and chemistry classes an associate in engineering can provide so I could farther my career options. UCM states that employers are looking at their grads (especially in their cadd design program) but schools tend to mislead you. I am 36 years old currently and I feel that may also close some doors of opportunity for me so I was thinking that with the applied science degree it may not be as much of an issue when I apply. I am just trying to be realistic about this. I enjoy wearing many hats at a job so the more skills I learn, the better equipped I am to fill a role with many responsibilites. But if an A.A.S. is really all that I would need to get started on the technology side of Civil Engineering, and the rest is kind of a waste, then maybe I should think about that or just go back to my original plan and go to Missouri S&T and get a ArchE degree and move forward. But my gut keeps telling me that a B.A.S. in engineering tech will make me a bigger asset and land me a good job with stability. But I do value a working engineer's opinion.

 

[cvg]

if you want to work as a civil engineer in the US, you will eventually need to get registered. that will be very difficult without a BSCE from an ABET acredited school. your options with some sort of technology degree at this engineering firm would be surveyor (start as rod man and work up), construction inspector or drafter. you would not be doing any engineering work. Your other options might be to work as a sales rep for some sort of product (valves, pumps, construction equipment) or work for a construction company, estimating or helping manage projects. If you want to get into mechanical/electrical or industrial you might have more options. A lot of the industrial MEP and HVAC designers are not degreed engineers.

 

[civilman72]

"But if an A.A.S. is really all that I would need to get started on the technology side of Civil Engineering, and the rest is kind of a waste..."

To clarify - if you try to get your PE with a BSCE from an ABET-Accredited School, you only need 4 years (of engineering experience) to qualify to sit for the test. It would take you 12 years (at least in Colorado) to qualify to sit for the test with any other type of "degree" (two-year of four-year). That makes the additional two years of college in engineering technology "a waste" if pursuing a PE (without a BSCE) is on your wish list.

But if you do not intend to pursue your PE, the last two years of an engineering technology degree is not a waste when compared with an AAS. This type of degree will certainly open more doors for you and offer more pay. My point was, if you are going to complete four/five years of school to get an engineering technology degree, why NOT pursue a BSCE?

 

[isonthejazz]

Well,first of all, money is part of the consideration. I am looking to get back into college kinda late but I have been a professional musician for over ten years and it does not support a family financially. I am kind of blue collar when it comes to work and I am just looking to make an honest wage. Like what cvg was saying that "your options with some sort of technology degree at this engineering firm would be surveyor (start as rod man and work up), construction inspector or drafter.- industrial MEP and HVAC designers are not degreed engineers." I could be happy doing any of these actually and if I can do two or more with a firm, the better. I really like to wear different hats and if I had many of these skills, then I would become a bigger asset to a firm. And I also like the more "hands on" approach where I am applying knowledge of the more hard sciences to get things done. If I could do both surveyor (start as rod man and work up), construction inspector and or drafter for a firm, I would probably love that. And the biggest thing that scares me about a BSCE would be my age at the time I graduated, 41-42 would be that age. From what I have researched, It would be more difficult for me to find work as a CE at that age. So I feel that if I get in somewhere as a tech, then I could get my math, physics, etc... finished and if the firm I work for would hire me as an engineer, then I would go for it. I would have proved my worth as an tech enough to be able to take the next step, hopefully. Maybe I am wrong about my age to some extent in my thinking and a BSCE is the way to go, I fell confident that I could do it. I am very good at math and sciences. I also scored in the upper 97% in the country on a mechanical apptitude test in grade school. High school counselors kept pointing me in the direction of engineering as well as people that know me in my adult life and I come from an architect's family. But I really do appreciate your time with me on this thread. I feel that your advice is very good and I will be thinking about your thoughts for some time. Thank you for your input.

 

[bimr]

If you attend a quality school, your age will not be a factor at all. Engineering is a job for life even well in to your 60's.

The second point is that the more rigorous that your education is, the more financial reqards that you can expect. If you have the capability to do the work, then don't shortchange yourself.

The least expensive approach to an engineering degree is to attend a junior college that has an affiliation with an engineering school. A Co-Op program may also be attractive.

 

[gbam]

I waited for 8 years before I went back to college and got my degree. Now I am in my 17th year have my PE in Civil and have a great career. Age shouldnt matter. Just don't cut yourself short.

 

[beej67]

If you do stick with the technology program, learn GIS and BIM. Plenty of jobs out there for that, regardless of what flavor degree you have.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[eea]

Speaking as a Rolla grad, you should really get your ABET BSCE. Assuming you'll be going to school fulltime, as a tech you'll be making money 2 years earlier than an engineer, but the starting pay differential will negate that in just a few years.

I can’t tell you how many techs have worked for me that could and should be engineers but they either didn't get their undergraduate degree or got one but it wasn’t from an ABET accredited institution (and yes Southern Illinois from the mid-80s I'm calling you out).

Doesn't Rolla offer an evenings or satellite program in St Louis now? Seriously, find a way to get your ABET BSCE. I'd almost guarantee you that the right person applying at a firm as a parttime draftsman or rodman with the statement that you are going to school at night will get you a job pretty darn close to that of the 2 year AA degree.

 

[bridgebuster]

Ask yourself, what do you want to do that will make you happy, or help you best to achieve your goal of supporting a family?

Do you want to work as a designer or in the field? Public works projects or private clients?

If you want to be a project manager or project engineer on a design project for a government client you'll need a PE license. On the construction end of public works projects, the resident engineer is usually a PE, although I've known some people who've held this position with NICET IV certification.

On the contractor end you'll find the full spectrum. PM's and supers who are licensed engineers, and PM's and supers who graduated from the school of hard knocks.

Regarding a technology degree and and the ability to obtain a PE: Way back, on my first job on the construction, I was working as an inspector and I had a PE. I had three coworkers with CE technology degrees. They went to Pennsylvania to take Part A of the exam because New York didn't recognize the degree. One was able to obtain a PE. Why the other two didn't I don't know. I heard one works for a contractor; and one still works as an office engineer (in the NYC area that's the person who maintains the records for the owner on a public works project.)

 

[isonthejazz]

I think what attracts me the most about the B.S.E.T. program at UCM over Rolla's B.S.C.E. program is the that the courses in engineering start freshman year whereas the engineering courses at Rolla start junior year so it is like i get 4 years of work over 2. It is almost as if I get more skills at UCM and can get hired as more of an asset right out of school. Beej67 states that learning GIS and BIM are two skills that are employable and I get those classes at UCM. If I add Building codes and GIS 2 to the curriculum then I could leave school (after testing) with certificates in Building codes, Surveying and GIS and it makes me feel much more employable. Plus, I take several courses in CADD and their design school is apperently one of the best in the country and employers compete over graduates. So, I also feel that I could come out being a great drafter and know about how to work a BIM program well. Like I have mentioned before, I like to wear many hats and I like to be more in the field then just a drafter but I would love to be a drafter also. It is all about the skills to me and UCM seems to offer allot of skills to prepare me to be a great asset to a city, county or private firm. But, the big kicker is that I can still get a P.E. licence in 37 states from what I have researched, it just takes longer. I don't plan to stay in Missouri and I would go where the jobs are. But, I have also dreamed of an education at Rolla for a long time. I have heard many great things about that school and it just happens to be in my state. My best friend works at Black and Veech in IT and maybe I could get some face time with an engineer and a tech to get there view points. I appreciate your comments and it has given me allot to think about.

Thanks,
Brent Richards

 

[isonthejazz]

P.S.

Also, to answer bridgebuster's question, I prefer working in the field over just being an designer but doing both would make me happiest and the public sector is where I would prefer to work, city or county. As far as project management and project engineer, I would feel more comfortable doing those things after years of working experience. So getting a P.E. licence 6-8 years after I graduate makes better sense to me as I have learned all the skills needed and have taken the math, physics etc... classes a engineer would take in evening school.

 

[brandonbw]

I think you will have a tough time with the PE test without getting the full degree. I know plenty of drafters working at Civil Engineering firms and Surveyors out in the field who only have a high school degree. They are pretty good at their jobs, but many of them wouldn't be able to go much further in their career because they don't have all of the background knowledge. No one is going to mentor you enough if you don't already have the basics which a BSCE would give you. I have been around this and the old school guys won't take you seriously enough if you don't have your degree. It was amazing how fast the doors opened once I mentioned to PE's in the office that I had a degree from a top 50 Engineering school early in my career.

If you just want to be a drafter you should go to a school that offers an Associates in drafting. I worked with a few guys who went to ITT for that and were pretty good as pure drafters. Though I think technology will slowly make the engineer the drafter/designer and cut pure drafters out completely.

B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil Engineer and Structural Engineer

http://bwengr.com

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http://bwstructuralengineer.com

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http://bwcivilengineer.com

 

[isonthejazz]

I think the big thing here is that I want to do many different things. I am best in those environments. And it looks as though the school at UCM provides many skills. That is what caught my attention. But I think it was stated earlier that a PE in civil does a lot of different jobs. I am just wondering what path would open up more responsibilites. I would hate to just be a drafter or work on a long term project.

 

[edcard]

Draftsmen are being phased out. This should be pretty clear by now.

GIS and BIM are indeed hot right now, and users typically have a Geography (for GIS) or engineering degree. To be a rodman, inspector, etc., you don't need a BS in Eng. or even in Eng. Techology, and their salaries reflect that.

I feel that you are leery of enrolling in a BSCE program, and might prefer the CET degree because of being more hands-on, or less difficult, or because of your age or whatever the reason is. Fine, but keep in mind that, as mentioned by others, your options will be much more limited with a CET degree and, based on my own experience in working with CET degree holders, you will lack advanced knowledge of fluid mechanics, numerical analysis, modeling, etc.

Contrary to what others think, I do think that age is a factor, mostly because of lack of experience when you join the workforce. But there's little you can do about it and it may be a factor regardless of your degree. However, it's not an insurmountable obstacle and you might be able to use it to your advantage (maturity coupled with knowledge of the latest and greatest tools they teach you to use at school).

If you can, get a standard Eng. degree. And yes, learn GIS, BIM, project controls, MATLAB, modeling, technical writing, etc.