Cleaning glass carboys

[bikerdon]

I have aquired two glass carboys that I wish to use for brewing beer and making wine.

I don't know their source or what has been stored in them in the past. There doesn't appear to be any residual liquid remaining in them. One has a styrofoam insulating cup that comes about a 1/3 of the way up it when it's on. They are around 5 gallons in size.

Is soap and water sufficient to make sure they're clean? If not, any suggestions on how to best make sure they're clean or how to test if they're clean? I'd rather not end up on the Darwin Award list for poisoning myself or worse yet, ruin any beer.

 

[Latexman]

I'd wash and rinse them thoroughly with soap and water three times. Then if they pass the 3 sense test, i.e. looks clean, feels clean, and smells clean. I'd fill them with potable water, let them sit for a week, and then use them to "water" the family pet or fill a fish aquarium. If at any point, you suspect a problem, throw them out and buy clean ones.



Good luck,
Latexman

 

[Montemayor]

bikerdon:

I recall the cleaning method mandated by our Qualitative Chemistry Professor in cleaning out all our lab glassware prior to making an analysis with it. His was a method that had to positively clean the glassware in order to ensure an accurate subsequent analysis: use Aqua Regia to chemically clean the ware, followed by subsequent soap and water rinse.

I would recommend the same method for your application. Aqua Regia is a mixture of hydrochloric acid and nitric acid. It is so powerful, it can dissolve gold, which single acids alone cannot do. This ensures that the glass will be "chemically" clean, devoid of any contaminants or residual chemicals.

Good Luck.

Art Montemayor
Spring, TX

 

[kenvlach]

Art,
Reminds me of the highly effective glassware cleaning solution being phased out due to EPA when I was taking Quantitative Analysis: Warm sulfuric acid + dichromate solution (don’t remember concentrations). Good for both inorganic and organic contaminants. But, I wouldn’t recommend powerful acids for what seems to be home use.

Bikerdon,
Since there is no visible contamination, I would use dishwashing detergent (not soap) with the hottest water available [hope you have Pyrex glass] to clean. Rinse well, then add a gallon of 3% hydrogen peroxide (sold in stores for home use), top off with water, and leave capped until ready to use. Rinse. Less residue than with soap or detergent, and a trace of hydrogen peroxide is pretty harmless.

 

[Montemayor]

kenvlach:

I believe you're absolutely right. On second thought, I withdraw my recommendation. Although Aqua Regia will do the job, I don't know who would do the application and under what procedure. All we know is that it is a home environment and that doesn't give me a comfortable feeling, considering what could go wrong if not done by someone with professional Chemical handling experience.

Thanks for bring this subject back to a practical and real life level.

Art Montemayor
Spring, TX

 

[jmw]

What did the last owners die of? Useful to know.
I am assuming that since you don't know the source, that they were bought from somewhere that is probably many moves and several garage sales distant from the original use. If not, then some backtrail could be discovered.
The thing is, you don't use glass carboys for just any application.
Perhaps the question you need to ask is "who uses glass carboys today and what for?" and then see if any of those uses has a potential risk, especially in trace amounts. If you know the uses, then you can review health and safety certificates on the web.
You could find out who makes these things still and ask the manufacturer.
Now i expect there is a relationship between the last time these were used in an industrial plant and the distance they have travelled from that plant. It would be nice to know because if the equation throws up 10,000miles and Bhopal is in the circle, maybe you'd better just use them for plants or filling with pebbles or something decorative.

 

[bikerdon]

Thanks all for the information. The acid baths basically had me scared off anyway. All I know about the carboys is that my father had acquired them to make berry wine in. I don't believe he used them and he's since passed away so no history is available.

I'll use my best judgement on how clean they are or see if I can track down any cheme friends that have access to more sure cleaning procedures. If my yeast dies, I'll take that as a very bad sign also.

Don

 

[jmw]

My appologies Don,
excuse me while i extract a foot from my mouth. Humour is not always a good thing.
Jon

 

[bikerdon]

jmw,

Don't fret, no offense taken. Chances are these are old carboys that we're probably sitting around in someones basement for a long time. I didn't quite get the joke anyway. I was assuming that it had something to do with the gas leak from the US company over there that took out a lot of people.

Don

 

[jmw]

Hi Don,
thanks.
I was suggesting that if there was a string of previous users with a high mortality rate or unexxpected illnesses that it my have to do with tramp chemicals never efectively removed that are seriously toxic.
While i appreciate that yeast might be a good indicator of imediate risk, it does nothing to tell you about anything with a long term risk. Carboys may seem like a good idea for home brewing but somewhere along the line between their original use in industry and their use for home brewing, they porbably should be properly cleaned out. I wouldn't like to take a chance that some company, when disposing of them, didn't take care to clean them thoroughly first.
Of course, i don't know what they were used for but glassware is not commonly used. Those that i have seen in processes were generally used with highly corrosive liquids which probably can be, or already have been, easily neutralised. But, are they used also for some highly toxic chemicals? That is why i suggested (my attempt at humour) to check the back taril for victims; but more realsitically, to see what sort of applications they might have been used for. Now i don't know, and have no way of knowing, just what the risks are. I would hope that someone reading this post has first hand experience of their use in industry and can advise you better.

 

[BRT549]

Hey, a home-brew question - finally, something I know something about on this site! Proper santiation is the key to homebrewing.

Don't use dishwashing soap for cleaning - ever. It screws up the head formation of the final product. Don't use dishwashing soap (auto or hand), laundry detergent, etc.

Two products are very helpful for this cleaning job. One is a water jet rig that screws on to your sink faucet. Jet-Wash is one trade name. It has a valve at the end; you just lower the carboy over the nozzle and press down. The water spray cleans out the internals nicely, and works great for bottles. The second tool is a carboy brush, which looks like a big test-tube brush with a bend in the middle. Even with the water blast tool, enough residual proteins and gunk will form at the air/beer/carboy interface to necessitate some scrubbing action.

Final santiation of the carboys is accomplished by many routes. I use either a small amount of Chlorox in water, or a granular product called "No-Rinse". It uses oxygen to kill off the bugs. I just bought an iodine-based cleaner to check out too.

If your yeast dies, there are many other things that might have happened besides a dirty carboy. It's tough to kill off yeast - most of the problems occur when other bacteria get in the wort and grow faster than the yeast. A good book to read is "Homebrewing for Dummies". It's got the most practical information on the actual art of brewing - most other books are mainly recipes.