My firm conducted a structural inspection of a multifamily residence up for sale. I stamped the 9 page report with my Registered Professional Structural Engineer's stamp and signed and dated it. We got a call from a prospective buyer inquiring about the 2 page report! Apparently the client proceeded to clip and paste and delete sections of my stamped report because she did not want the prospective buyer to read certain things that we pointed out as requiring attention. One area that she omitted was a dangerously deteriorated elevated concrete slab over a garage that serves as an entrance to the building. We told her to caution tape it off immediately. Apparently she taped it off, took some pictures of it to send to us, then took the tape down. Is there any way to prosecute someone for revising a report stamped by a registered professional engineer? What would you do?
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Client Changed Report 3
- Thread starter SteveMort
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Sounds like the prospective buyer is now aware of the facts.
The client isn't a licensed engineer so a report to the engineering board of your state may not have any wings.
The client practiced unethical behavior and it appears to be tantamount to deceptive business practices.
A few things I might do (after consulting with my attorney and/or prof. insurance agent):
1. Write a letter directly to the client immediately outlining your concern over their dishonest attempts to alter the content of your professional report. Request that your client cease and desist from further publishing your report to others in any form other than the original content.
2. You can offer to meet with your client to discuss the report and what possibly could be altered, edited, or trimmed to better meet their needs while still preserving your ability to perform engineering services in an ethical, and public welfare orientation.
3. Notify the Better Business Bureau of your clients shenanigans.
4. Notify the city (or whatever the local inspection authority is) of the concerns and issues with the property.
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faq731-376
The client isn't a licensed engineer so a report to the engineering board of your state may not have any wings.
The client practiced unethical behavior and it appears to be tantamount to deceptive business practices.
A few things I might do (after consulting with my attorney and/or prof. insurance agent):
1. Write a letter directly to the client immediately outlining your concern over their dishonest attempts to alter the content of your professional report. Request that your client cease and desist from further publishing your report to others in any form other than the original content.
2. You can offer to meet with your client to discuss the report and what possibly could be altered, edited, or trimmed to better meet their needs while still preserving your ability to perform engineering services in an ethical, and public welfare orientation.
3. Notify the Better Business Bureau of your clients shenanigans.
4. Notify the city (or whatever the local inspection authority is) of the concerns and issues with the property.
Check out Eng-Tips Forum's Policies here:
faq731-376
JoshPlumSE
Structural
Fascinating and disturbing. Please keep us informed about what happens. At least in generalities if you can.
Who was your client? Who did the clipping / editing? If it was a real estate agent or broker, then report them to their board as they should not be allowed to practice after such shenanigans. Not sure what to do if it was the owner of the property. Certainly they are committing fraud against the prospective buyers. JAE's options seem reasonable. And, you should at least document your attempts to correct the situation in case you are ever dragged into a lawsuit on the subject. Also, I wonder if the Board of Engineers may have a suggestion for you. Maybe filing a charge against them for practicing engineering without a license or something along those lines.
Who was your client? Who did the clipping / editing? If it was a real estate agent or broker, then report them to their board as they should not be allowed to practice after such shenanigans. Not sure what to do if it was the owner of the property. Certainly they are committing fraud against the prospective buyers. JAE's options seem reasonable. And, you should at least document your attempts to correct the situation in case you are ever dragged into a lawsuit on the subject. Also, I wonder if the Board of Engineers may have a suggestion for you. Maybe filing a charge against them for practicing engineering without a license or something along those lines.
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Altering your report IS engineering without a license, which is immediately reportable to your state board and IS illegal.
That's just for starters. If you have access to a lawyer, have them draft up a cease and desist letter. By altering your report, they have damaged your reputation and business, and that's a big lawsuit.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
That's just for starters. If you have access to a lawyer, have them draft up a cease and desist letter. By altering your report, they have damaged your reputation and business, and that's a big lawsuit.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
I would definitely start by notifying your engineering board/association. While the engineering act would not apply directly to the non P.E. homeowner who changed the report, in my jurisdiction, the engineering association would commence legal proceedings against a non-P.E. individual in regular court. Other options would include A) notifying the building department and providing your full report directly to them, B) have a lawyer's letter sent, the lawyer will guide you on what needs to be said, C) letter to the client.
Notifying the engineering board will also help protect you in the future if the 2 page report resurfaces down the road. They also will likely have some other good suggestions.
Notifying the engineering board will also help protect you in the future if the 2 page report resurfaces down the road. They also will likely have some other good suggestions.
chamfer strip
Civil/Environmental
they should lose their real estate license and be reported to the board that oversees that profession in that state.
Is it obvious she intentionally altered it? Because one thing she might try is to claim she "accidentally" didn't give [whomever] certain pages......but if text has been altered on a page she did give [whomever].....she can't defend that.
Just wanted to bring up (and prepare you for) that possibility. You wouldn't believe the things people claim in court. (Or on the streets. Just watch the show 'Cops'.)
Just wanted to bring up (and prepare you for) that possibility. You wouldn't believe the things people claim in court. (Or on the streets. Just watch the show 'Cops'.)
TehMightyEngineer
Structural
Might be worth talking to your E&O insurance provider. This client could have dragged you into litigation and by extension your insurance company. They would have every interest in pursuing this person for you with their own lawyers or at least supporting you in the process of detaching yourself from this client to limit any liability.
Professional Engineer (ME, NH, MA) Structural Engineer (IL)
American Concrete Industries
Professional Engineer (ME, NH, MA) Structural Engineer (IL)
American Concrete Industries
Prospective buyer? Meaning the property hasn't sold yet? If so, then call the listing agent and tell them what happened. They are bound to laws and rules just like we are and if you make it formally known to them then they "should" resolve any issues before the property sells or sell as is but all parties should know about major issues.
The only other option I see that you have is calling the city and explaining your situation. They may be able to issue a code enforcement violation for an unsafe structure or similar and I believe this would stop a sale or at least let the whole world know whats going on. Without putting a lien on the property(dont know if you can do this if you got paid) or suing the owner Im not sure what other options you have. I bet the buyers bank or the sellers bank wouldn't like this situation either and if you can let it be known to them that might stir the pot up too.
Im interested to see how this turns out, let us know. Good Luck!
The only other option I see that you have is calling the city and explaining your situation. They may be able to issue a code enforcement violation for an unsafe structure or similar and I believe this would stop a sale or at least let the whole world know whats going on. Without putting a lien on the property(dont know if you can do this if you got paid) or suing the owner Im not sure what other options you have. I bet the buyers bank or the sellers bank wouldn't like this situation either and if you can let it be known to them that might stir the pot up too.
Im interested to see how this turns out, let us know. Good Luck!
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canwesteng
Structural
Tangentially related, but I like to have P. X of XX used for page numbers on reports for this reason.
>>>Tangentially related, but I like to have P. X of XX used for page numbers on reports for this reason.<<<
Since the client apparently *literally* cut and pasted the report back together I'm not sure that would have prevented this; correction fluid could have been applied. But, I'll agree that numbering the pages in that manner would have provided additional evidence of intent.
Since the client apparently *literally* cut and pasted the report back together I'm not sure that would have prevented this; correction fluid could have been applied. But, I'll agree that numbering the pages in that manner would have provided additional evidence of intent.
Agree with most others. Report to board, by doctoring your report they're practicing engineering without a license. Talk with your attorney and insurance provider and see how they recommend proceeding. Would imagine some sort of cease/desist letter with copies to your attorney, your insurance carrier, the engineering board, and the seller's listing agent/realtor.
Most states have disclosure laws for real estate transactions that require the seller to disclose items like this to the buyer. This isn't just an engineering problem if they're removing them from the report and not disclosing them anywhere else. If the realtor is aware of or complicit in this, their license could be in jeopardy and an eventual buyer could go after them for this.
Most states have disclosure laws for real estate transactions that require the seller to disclose items like this to the buyer. This isn't just an engineering problem if they're removing them from the report and not disclosing them anywhere else. If the realtor is aware of or complicit in this, their license could be in jeopardy and an eventual buyer could go after them for this.
Rhode Island has specific disclosure laws for real estate transactions. You client appears to have violated those. If there is a realtor involved, they might be complicit so that's an avenue of statutory obligation.
As IRstuff noted, changing an engineering report might constitute a violation of state laws and rules for engineers. Report it assuming it is so......let the board figure it out...but you have an obligation
In any case, since you know of such fraud, you must report it....start with your board, consider the real estate board also.
As IRstuff noted, changing an engineering report might constitute a violation of state laws and rules for engineers. Report it assuming it is so......let the board figure it out...but you have an obligation
In any case, since you know of such fraud, you must report it....start with your board, consider the real estate board also.
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- Thread starter
- #18
Thank you all for your input. I contacted the Board of Design Professionals and they said they can bring this issue up at the next meeting February 21. I also contacted my liability insurance carrier and have not heard back yet. I'll keep you posted.
JStructsteel
Structural
Its rare that the agent (at least in my experience) is the client. Usually its the home owner or potential buyer that ends up paying the fee. If it was with the agent, then they are going to have someone or some board they report to. Get to that person or persons.
Make sure you get a copy of the doctored letter if possible. Preferably thru email so you have proof who sent it to you.
Make sure you get a copy of the doctored letter if possible. Preferably thru email so you have proof who sent it to you.
(Tangent)
I was once called by a lawyer who was representing the victims of an auto accident, to which I was a witness. The lawyer's rude talk almost put me off, but I had sympathy for the victims, and it came as no surprise that the only lawyer they could afford was a slimy one. I volunteered to write my witness testimony in a letter and send it to him. When I wrote the letter, I made sure to state, first, that I had included a copy for the family of the accident victim and specified that the second copy must be provided to them, by name. A few weeks later, a member of the family phoned me to thank me and commend me on my thorough account. Not only for all the detail I wrote, but also in numbering the pages "1 of 9" and so on, because that's the only way she would have known that the slimy lawyer didn't give her the whole document. Now that she had established contact directly with me, I was able to send her a complete copy of my testimony, and, of course, talk much more and answer more of her questions.
STF
I was once called by a lawyer who was representing the victims of an auto accident, to which I was a witness. The lawyer's rude talk almost put me off, but I had sympathy for the victims, and it came as no surprise that the only lawyer they could afford was a slimy one. I volunteered to write my witness testimony in a letter and send it to him. When I wrote the letter, I made sure to state, first, that I had included a copy for the family of the accident victim and specified that the second copy must be provided to them, by name. A few weeks later, a member of the family phoned me to thank me and commend me on my thorough account. Not only for all the detail I wrote, but also in numbering the pages "1 of 9" and so on, because that's the only way she would have known that the slimy lawyer didn't give her the whole document. Now that she had established contact directly with me, I was able to send her a complete copy of my testimony, and, of course, talk much more and answer more of her questions.
STF
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