College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE? 10

[dmalicky]

We are re-evaluating which package to teach and use with undergraduate mechanical engineering students. We currenly have ProE/M though we are not heavily vested in it. I know historically SW has been faster to learn and use, compared to ProE. But ProE has improved in recent years and I don't know where they stand today. It would be great to know some rough estimates (e.g., %s, weeks, hours, mouse clicks) of the current differences.

Speed of learning and using is one of our considerations. I'd value your perspectives on these other factors:
1. Acceptance in industry: ProE is probably a little better because a ProE user can more easily learn SW than v.v.
2. Integration with a good FEA program: ProMechanica is probably enough for most undergrads although non-linear capabilities would be desirable. We're considering Ansys, Abaqus, Marc, __Nastran... to augment ProM. NEiWorks/Nastran looks like a logical and good choice for SW, since Cosmosworks is probably not enough.
3. Integration with a good CFD program: still working on this one.
4. Integration with a good CAM program: ProE has ProNC modules in the education edition, although I haven't heard much about them in industry. We have and would like to keep using SurfCam, so SW is better here.
5. Academic pricing: getting these quotes now.

Thanks,
David Malicky
University of San Diego

http://www.sandiego.edu/engineering

 

[Nella95]

Kids today are extruding solid models from the get-go, and I, personally, found that 'concept' harder to grasp after working for a few years with AutoCAD, and other 2-D programs. But if you want 'ease of use,' I'd go with SolidWorks, and SW integration with analysis software (COSMOS) - I found much easier to grasp that.

That said - I believe it's an 'apples to oranges' comparison, b/c of my inexperience to solid modeling.

 

[Standing]

I have not used Pro-E since 1998, we changed over to SolidWorks and never looked back, because of the cost of Pro-E at the time. I understand the add-in can be costly. Our newly hired Engineers are learning SolidWorks in less than a week at the same time working on and completing projects. SolidWorks is so easy to learn and support. I have friends who use Pro-E and they complain all the time, were as I never hear complaints from SolidWorks users.

Bradley

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

Are we talking the original full-blown Pro/E, or the Wildfire version?


Helpful SW websites FAQ559-520
How to get answers to your SW questions FAQ559-1091

 

[Jabberwocky]

There was only one actual CAD class taught at my school (graduated in '04). They used Pro/E 2001i, although were in the process of upgrading to Wildfire (which caused more problems then it solved). Since landing a job I have only used Solidworks, and got up-to-speed in a few weeks. SWx is definitely nicer to you, although that may not be the best when you're just learning the basics (unconstrained lines in sketches, etc.)

CosmosWorks is just fine, although you have to actually get Designer, Xpress is a bit of a joke.

Can't vouch for the CFD or CAM.

That being said, here is the set of my class's projects:

http://www2.mmae.ucf.edu/~eml5025/fa03/

 

[CLinn]

I am a recent grad ('04). In school they gave us a crash course in Catia. I got a copy of SW one I was done school and picked it up with no training in a couple weeks. I am now considered a power user of SW.

My neighbours son (18) has been playing with AutoCAD for a few years. Last weekend I showed him SW. I gave him 3 simple parts to model and assemble. He was able to do it (with a little help, but not a lot) in 30 minutes.

In my opinion, SW is REALLY easy to learn.

 

[ctopher]

I would select SolidWorks anyday over any of the others for reasons too long to list.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 05
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

 

[Theophilus]

I taught myself SolidWorks, to become a very proficient user. In fact, I found it much more intuitive to learn than even AutoCAD (comparitively much more limited application, apples to oranges, too).

I know people who use ProE and who seem to wear the overcoming of the difficulties of that program as a sort of badge of honor. That alone speaks for itself.

You'll probably want to post this question in the ProE forum if you haven't already, since ProE has morphed--for better or worse--into a quasi-mid-range new-interface sort of thing called WildFire. My ProE clients won't make the switch and are sticking with their full-version five-year-old software and about to ditch it altogether for SolidWorks since SolidWorks is increasingly picking up industry recognition and user-base.

Also, make sure you fully understand what really comes with each package for the price. SolidWorks Office will provide an integrated rendering package that is quite competent, as well as lots of other things that are often tacked on as modules in ProE--for an additional price, too. So be careful what you're really comparing.

Jeff Mowry

http://www.industrialdesignhaus.com

Reason trumps all. And awe trumps reason.

 

[bvanhiel]

SolidWorks is the easy choice:

1) Uses Windows conventions (cntrl-Z for undo, drag and drop, etc.)
2) Coherent user interface.
3) More modules included or relatively inexpensive to add (sheetmetal, photoworks, animator).
4) Costs less.
5) Gaining in industry use.

I've been using Pro/E from release 13 to Wildfire 2 and SW from SW2000 to SW2006. Except for some surfacing stuff I'd pick SW over Pro every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

-b

 

[ewh]

Since this is a college setting, and you can't be everything to all people (SW is not used everywhere), SW is definitely the way to go.

 

[boffin5]

Hey, EWH, So what surfacing stuff in Wildfire do you think is better than what SW has? I have done lots of surface lofting in CatiaV5.

 

[ewh]

Sorry, no experience with Wildfire, mostly UG. Class A surfacing and control of those sufaces is stronger in UG than SW. Other than that and the integration with manufacturing operations, SW gives more bang for the buck.

 

[boffin5]

Sorry, I meant to ask bvanhiel about the surfacing, since he mentioned it specifically.

 

[Heckler]

I've used SWx since 98 and Pro/e since release 13. I would have to recommend you survey local industry since that would serve your students better once they finish school. I prefer SWx right up until I need to do a variable section sweep then I wish I was using Pro/E 2001. SWx corp. has positioned the product to work with Gold Partners thus getting the benefits of industry leading 3rd party programs. For analysis I would the Nastran flavor of your choice.

Best Regards,

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SW2005 SP 5.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience every time.

 

[aerohap]

Catia is probably the way to go if the funding will support it. I have used Catia, ProE, Solidworks, Rhino, AutoCad, and a variety of other basic drafting programs. A friend of mine works at a company that just converted from Solidworks to SolidEdge (much to his chagrin). Solidworks seemed to be too unstable in large assemblies in a network environment. SolidEdge was more stable but not as intuitive and did not have all the same tools as Solidworks. Rhino3D is a good basic program for solid modeling but the conversion of models to other software will not be as simple as in Solidworks or Catia. If the students use Catia they would be able to use Solidworks will little or no additional training.

I recieved my degree from Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, the best school in the country for their undergraduate program in Aerospace Engineering. While I was there they switched from Bentley Microstation to Catia 5 V5. I did an internship at the Milwaukee School of Engineering. There computer lab utilizes both ProE and Solidworks. Checking with other schools might be a good way to start also.

 

[Heckler]

I recieved my degree from Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, the best school in the country for their undergraduate program in Aerospace Engineering.

Is your opinion or is it a published fact?


SolidWorks or Pro/E


Best Regards,

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SW2005 SP 5.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience every time.

 

[keepinitcool]

Here is my initial take on this. Solidworks is the easiest to pick up, IMHO. I've tried learning Pro/E Wildfire 2 on my own, and I find I have to force myself to work at it. I picked up SW and was able to do things in a few hours on my own. I've been studying Catia V5 and find it is similar to Solidworks, and a little easier than what I've done in Pro/E, but still Solidworks is easier.

However, you must allow Pro/E to be available to students because a lot of major companies use it. In the aerospace and mainly automotive industries Catia is used too. Solidworks would be the best to use throughout a college curriculum in that you can teach it from day one and expect it to be a tool the student can spend time using rather than spending time learning to use it.

Integration with FEA on a academic basis is in Solidworks favor as it has Cosmosworks academic available. Pro/Mechanica is more basic in that it doesn't do CFD. True, you would like to get more options for CFD and structural, but the academic cost of Solidworks with Cosmos is less than textbooks.

 

[GregLocock]

Here's a question: what are you trying to teach the children?

Until you can answer that question, then any decision you make will be arbitrary.

As an end user, I would like to see them learn a strong tree based approach, a thorough understanding of constraints and parametric modelling, and the ability to visualise parts from the screen. They also must be able to create usable 2D drawings from the model.

If you teach them a package that encourages that approach, good.







Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[ctopher]

I agree with Greg. Also a good understanding of machining is a plus.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 05
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

 

[GregLocock]

I wa skind of hoping that the drafting class didn't have to teach that!

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.