Comparison between SEL and GE relay protections 4

[lz5pl]

I have no experience with these companies. Could you share your opinions in terms of convenience of setting, software, maintenance, customer service, etc.


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It may be like this in theory and practice, but in real life it is completely different.
The favourite sentence of my army sergeant

 

[slavag]

Dave ( dpc), I know your answer .
Sorry Plamen for the offtop, I have no experience too.
Best Regards.
Slava

 

[tem1234]

From my little experience,

GE: really easy to set, with enervista software even more. If you don't want to lose time, it works well.

SEL: very difficult to understand the first time, but once you get it, you can do everything you want with these relays. You must work at least one time with a SEL relay to understand how they like to make things complicated, but there's no limit of what you can do with it.

SEL have a 10 years warranty too.

 

[Eleceng01]

tem1234 is right on the Enervista software - I have used most of the major manufacturer's software and it is the best by far IMHO.

SEL does have the 10-yr warranty, but my understanding is that they have never charged to repair a relay, even ones >10-yrs old.

If you dig into the relays past the 51 element - check, 50 - check, etc. you will see that both use similar algorithms that sometimes have the same or different weak spots in the algorithm. This can be said for any protection relay.

From my personal experience, SEL has better tech support, but I might just have a good field guy.

 

[lz5pl]

OK, it seems more or less clear for first impression.
SEL confused me a bit with their several software modules - some of them are free of charge, some are paid (actually not very expensive comparing with Siemens's DIGSI). Which modules are necessary for engineering activities, not just for changing of setting values?
Sorry for the stupid questions, I just started to look more deeply in their product line. SEL are not popular here in East Europe (GE also).
I don't afraid if the software seems difficult for the first time - if I got with Siemens, ABB and AREVA, I should work with SEL too

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It may be like this in theory and practice, but in real life it is completely different.
The favourite sentence of my army sergeant

 

[dpc]

The learning curve for the SEL relays is more difficult than the GE relays, but for customer service SEL is far, far superior, at least in the US.

SEL relays are not drawout, if that is considered a requirement. Test switches are recommended.

Schweitzer's basic business is making relays. GE's basic business these days is........ what exactly? Probably buying up innovative companies like Multilin and slowly sucking the life force out of them.

Everything else being equal, I would always recommend SEL relays to a client over GE mainly due to the better customer service.

Try this test: Come up with a technical question regarding a relay. Then call GE/Multilin customer service and SEL customer service.

Of course, your mileage may vary...

Cheers,

Dave

 

[lz5pl]

Thank you, guys!


------------------------
It may be like this in theory and practice, but in real life it is completely different.
The favourite sentence of my army sergeant

 

[alehman]

I've actually had reasonably good luck with GE tech support, but most of their folks seem to be non-native English speakers so you have to listen carefully and ask questions. They seemed to know their stuff.

SEL is very good also and very willing to help with specific applications.

 

[kanjanathep]

Yes,I think GE is the best. Easy to use and set.

 

[cranky108]

GE relays seem to have short availabilty, which makes a failure a relay replacment job.
SEL still sells there earler relay platforms, if you want them, so a relay failure is more of a replacment of like and kind.

One concern I've seen is buying relays outside of the country, which becomes a hassle for shipping and custom paper work. For me I look at where I have to send the relay if it needs to be repaired. It may not be a problem for one or two relays, but with the more relays you get closer to the magic normal failure rate.

 

[slavag]

Cranky108!!!
I'm fully agree with you!!!!
This is a issue, not price of relay or easier setting.
And additionaly, good technical support near to you.
Best Regards.
Slava

 

[lz5pl]

On first look I liked SEL-751 relay as distribution feeder protection. But after reading it's features I found that there is no internal autoreclose function. How do you realize this function, I see that other relays with AR are very expensive comparing with 751's and also with similar European relays?
It is also strange for me that a relay with voltage measurements hasn't directional functionality ?!

Well, it is a matter of manufacturer policy, but I am really surprized.

I played a bit with AcSELerator Quickset - some solutions seem unusual, but anyway it is possible to start without reading the Manual first ;-)

------------------------
It may be like this in theory and practice, but in real life it is completely different.
The favourite sentence of my army sergeant

 

[rbulsara]

At end of the day all relays has a learning curve. I have not used SEL, but they are reputed. Utility companies love them in the USA. A leading swithgear/ gen controls manufacuturer prefers GE over SEL for simplicity.

GE relays are easy to use, we use them all the time. Their tech support is very good as alehman said. Their manuals are useless however.

I also fear demise of GE relays someday as they may drop it just because some bin counter will decide it is a great idea! GE's core business appears changes by the week. But I think we are safe with multilin for now.

 

[jghrist]

On first look I liked SEL-751 relay as distribution feeder protection. But after reading it's features I found that there is no internal autoreclose function. How do you realize this function, I see that other relays with AR are very expensive comparing with 751's and also with similar European relays?
It is also strange for me that a relay with voltage measurements hasn't directional functionality ?!

It looks like the SEL-751 was designed mostly for industrial feeders or utility applications where space is at a premium or cost is a big factor.

 

[dpc]

For inexpensive relay with auto-reclosing, I'd look at the SEL-551 series - it's under $1000. Also the SEL-351, 451, or 651 can all do reclosing.

 

[cranky108]

I haven't used the SEL-751 myself, but in other SEL relays it is possible to set up logic to make new functions. However setting up reclosing in the SEL-321 relay wasen't that easy. The papers on the SEL web site helped a bunch.

 

[slavag]

Lz5pl, I don't understand something.
Maybe this depend on your project.
You have all range of ABB, Areva, Siemens relays.
very simple,cheaper and with AR functionality.
BTW, guys, don't forgot you have two GE Multilin
Canada and Spain, aren't same.

 

[slavag]

Sorry forgot:
And you have Vamp.
Best Regards.
Slava

 

[rcw retired EE]

My experience with SEL & GE Mulitlin or GE relays applied for redundancy on the same generator, feeder or transformer. SEL always tripped first on any fault.

GE software is OK, not as easy as Beckwith. SEL has good warranty. GE is GE. I had 75% failure rates on a group of GE relays out of Spain and recieved little support from factory. Had to abandon that applicaiton.

We use a lot of GE Multilin in our power plant designs and get OK applications support. Great local support from SEL. But I struggle with SEL's cumbersome control language.

(Disclaimer - SEL's founder & I had same advisor in grad school and they are very very big in our local area.)

 

[davidbeach]

The SEL-751 is due to have reclosing soon, if not already. The target date, if I recall correctly, was this month.