Complaint and request to see backup data

[RacknRoll]

Our client is concerned about a structural report we did and would like our in-house information such as our checklist and photos. The client feels our report should look like a house-inspection report, but it does not. It looks like an engineering report. They think it therefore isn't a "complete report".

How do you respond to such a request? Do you provide all photos and your in-house checklists?

Thanks!

 

[PlinkoEng]

I guess you can look at it a couple ways. Contact some local firms or jurisdictions and ask if they think your report is within local professional standards. If they say it's lacking you have an excellent opportunity to improve your product. If you look good compared to other locals then you can tell them you are well within local professional standards.

If they are really pushy you can always tell them to go take their own pictures if they want them so much.

 

[RacknRoll]

I think they're just upset it didn't say what they wanted it to say. You know how that goes.

 

[dik]

I don't do many housing inspections and I don't have a checklist. I attach a few representative photos and in the report I note that all photos have been retained and are available (I retain all photos, including those out of focus, bad exposure, etc.).

House inspectors may not be as good, and maybe need to keep a list.

They also use 'boiler plate' reports.

 

[lexpatrie]

Give them all the photos.. that's simple enough isn't it? I don't hold photos back in the first place. They don't all go into the report, but I find that "ask if you want the other photos" obnoxious.

 

[rb1957]

"I think they're just upset it didn't say what they wanted it to say." I think you're probably right. It sounds like you are confident with your report, so a couple ways to react

1) discuss with the customer what they want to see, If it is a home inspection report, quote the delta cost.
2) maybe what they want is in your opinion unreasonable, then say "thx but no thx".
3) how well worded was the contract ? If loosely worded, then their contract to you is subject to your interpretation (I think).
4) if still at logger heads and you can handle the pain say "here's the number of our local engineering professional standards office. have a nice day."

 

[LittleInch]

Can't see why you don't just give it to them. They paid for your time to do the work and take the photos by so unless it contains some proprietary IP, then pdf of the docs and a dump of all your photos is easy to do and jf you've got nothing to hide, then why not?

So they might send those to someone else to see if they get a different answer, but for me it's their information.

 

[human909]

You get what you pay for. A comprehensive report with photographs explaining every aspect takes more time and is more expensive to produce.

I recently provided a single page report for a client who had at that stage already had TWO reports by general building inspectors done. It didn't seem suitable to do a third report overlapping their reports. I focussed on the structural aspects of contention and provided no photographs.

I didn't provide a quote prior to engagement, I billed per hour and tried to limit my hours by only providing what was required.

 

[XR250]

The majority of my reports from the last 30 years have been one page and without photos. I get a complaint here and there but I prefer to keep it this way.

 

[phamENG]

How you proceed depends on how you started. What expectations were set with your client? Did you explain what kind of report you would provide? My proposals for these projects usually says something like "a one or two page letter-form report". That way there's no question on the back end. Well...that's not true...but when they do question it and I point to that, all but the most unreasonable of people will say "oh...okay."

So...did you set any expectations? Did you have any reason to think this client was familiar with how structural engineering assessments work? Do you have more photos or checklists?

Any contractual agreements not withstanding, I'd say you certainly don't have an obligation to give them more unless they sue you and demand it in discovery. Professional work product and instruments of service are owned by the service provider in typical AEC agreements, so you decide (within the terms of your agreement) what the client has access to.

You also need to consider how this will impact future business. Is this type of project important to your firm? Do you have google reviews turned on? How much of a negative impact will an angry client have on future business even if they don't sue you? (And don't let the small fee fool you...small claims courts exists for a reason).

It may be that you need to remind your client of the limits of your service, and that you'd be happy to sit down with them and review the assessment in more detail. However, it's beyond the scope of the original agreement and they will have to pay hourly for that time.

 

[lexpatrie]

3) how well worded was the contract ? If loosely worded, then their contract to you is subject to your interpretation (I think).

This is 100% backwards. Contract ambiguity is generally interpreted by the courts in the favor of the person who did not write the contract.

Contra Proferentem Rule: How It Works and Examples

The contra proferentem rule is a legal doctrine stipulating that a party be deemed at fault if it has introduced an ambiguous contract clause that harms another party agreeing to the contract.

www.investopedia.com

 

[phamENG]

Contract ambiguity is generally interpreted by the courts in the favor of the person who did not write the contract.

That is my understanding as well.

 

[dik]

My experience too...

 

[jerseyshore]

I will gladly send additional photos to people and if they ask me to add a line or two about something else that's usually fine. If they are expecting a home inspector-ish report then you just explain to them that you are not a home inspector and what we do is different.

I write a lot of home reports and I constantly explain to people that my reports are general summaries of my evaluation and recommendations. It's not a highly detailed list of items. It's not a takeoff or quote summary. I won't include construction costs or anything like that, but I'm always happy to perform another site visit and prepare a repair drawing if needed.

Most people just don't know the difference and what we do so no harm in just outlining it. And it's always a good reminder to highlight what you will provide prior to getting started so that their expectations are not wildly different.

 

[lexpatrie]

Yeah, New Jersey is also highly regulated in home inspection. Plus their insurance requirements, most other states it's very little regulation, no insurance if anything.

Home inspection is a different creature, (I'd be shocked if most structural or civil engineers knew the home inspector is supposed to work every switch 5x and open and close every window 5x and turn water faucets on/off 5x.

Even a structural/civil engineer who did a "home inspection" isn't in that mindset and isn't typically aware of the NACHI checklists and or obligations. Most of them use specialized software and issue the reports "on site". They can still skip parts of their job (cough personal experience cough), and make big mistakes, but the contract usually says "liability limited to the cost of the inspection", again, probably not enforceable, but you have to fund the lawsuit to get the damages, survive various hearings and motion for summary judgement, etc. It's painfully obvious what they did wrong, so the fight that happens is to block the lawsuit to avoid a finding, or to limit the damages to teh $400 you paid.

Imagine a faulty furnace installed in an unoccupied house in the summer and "passed" by a home inspector (because they didn't look at it) and it leaks CO and kills a family of five. Then consider the $400 paid for a home inspection and the "limit" of damages (Not in New Jersey, mind you, you all have regs with teeth).

 

[Euler07]

Our client is concerned about a structural report we did and would like our in-house information such as our checklist and photos. The client feels our report should look like a house-inspection report, but it does not. It looks like an engineering report. They think it therefore isn't a "complete report".

How do you respond to such a request? Do you provide all photos and your in-house checklists?

I would communicate with the client that your report is not a house-inspection report. I would not provide any checklist or other photos, unless they specifically want a photo of something included. I would only provide a comprehensive list of photos if it's a dilapidation report to record the building condition prior to neighbouring construction.

Beware in situations like this. The client might be seeking additional information from you to potentially use in court.

 

[lexpatrie]

Why is holding back the photos such a big deal to people? It isn't like you have to have duplicate photos printed from negatives anymore. Zip the file and email it, if not something more sophisticated.

You’re unlikely to be able to “resist” production of the photographs in document discovery phase anyway, so why not do it now, and then you can do the “see I’m a reasonable person” thing in front of the jury if it comes to it.

If there’s no checklist, just say so. Respond to the request at least.

 

[Christyeng314]

Why is holding back the photos such a big deal to people? It isn't like you have to have duplicate photos printed from negatives anymore. Zip the file and email it, if not something more sophisticated.

You’re unlikely to be able to “resist” production of the photographs in document discovery phase anyway, so why not do it now, and then you can do the “see I’m a reasonable person” thing in front of the jury if it comes to it.

If there’s no checklist, just say so. Respond to the request at least.

why provide people documents they can use to determine weather or not to take you to court?

 

[Ingenuity]

determine weather or not to take you to court?

So they can take you to grammar court?

 

[lexpatrie]

Because they don't need documents to take you to court.

They just need to be annoyed enough to take time out of their day and pay a filing fee.