Concerning Services

[haynewp]

I got this from the list email recently. I found it to be very troubling. If PEs start selling their seal over the internet like this, I think our worth will really plummet. I don't know what the rules are for the states that are being sealed for by this company, but documents have to be prepared under your supervision in the state I am in or else it is unethical to seal them. I would hope all states would adopt a policy such as this to help protect what we have left.

http://www.engineerapprovals.com/

 

[JAE]

I'm forwarding the name and address to the PA board for their review. I believe it is illegal for a Pennsylvania Engineer to solicit plans for stamping without being the actual engineer doing the design.

 

[SperlingPE]

Assuming that the people behind this operation actually exercise the proper amount of care in checking someone's plans, it is ridiculous that they are advertising this service and making it sound like it is as simple as odering take-out. I can't believe that they can thoroughly check (exercise the proper amount of care) a drawing sheet for $99. Alert your local engineering organizations. Alert your local review board that this type of organization exists.

 

[cap4000]

I live in New Jersey. The State Board here I think would have no problem issuing this guy a stiff fine. Last month they issued one for $16,000.00 for a Surveying Ethics related issue. This guy James Koppenhaver,PE has an active NJPE License. I plan to call the Board to alert them of this slime-ball. Thanks, for the heads-up.

 

[broekie]

This is very disturbing. I found this quote in their "Asssurance to Users" section:

"It is understood the sealed documents are the property of the Respondents, and EngineeerApprovals.com makes no claim to the information contained therein. The service is confidential, and any correspondence on a particular request will only be between EngineeerApprovals.com and the Respondent."

As I understand this, they will seal the documents, but make no claim to the information contained in what they sealed. HUH?!?!? Isn't that what sealing documents is - making a legal claim to the information in what you seal.

 

[Ron]

Extremely disturbing. Anyone with further info on this group, please forward to appropriate state boards as JAE and CAP4000 have done. WE DO NOT NEED THIS IN OUR PROFESSION.

 

[IRstuff]

On this page:

http://www.engineerapprovals.com/faq/,

the fee is $9.99 per sheet for 50 or more sheets.

Assuming an normal hourly rate of $100, he'd need to crank through a sheet in less than 6 minutes. Wow!

TTFN

 

[JAE]

Pennsylvania has been sent a complaint.

 

[broekie]

I sent the state board in Pennsylvania a complaint as well.

 

[denoid]

One of our CASE/MN (Council of American Structural Engineers - Minnesota Chapter) membes showed us this flier at the last monthly meeting. I believe it was agreed that CASE/MN would file a complaint as well to the PA board.

 

[connect2]

Holy cow??? Thats stunning. Simply amazing. As i go through this business accumulating more and more potential future liability with each job ... they should be run out of town, hung up to dry, out to pasture ... so to speak.

 

[JAE]

....run out on a rail, laughed out of the theater, pushed out of the boat...

 

[SlideRuleEra]

We do have allies on this subject:

http://euken.com/group/seaoc/mailarchive/2004b/msg00172.html

 

[CSEllc]

I am appalled at such blatant disregard for our profession and the ethics that we should be working by. It is people like this that give all us hardworking & honest engineers a bad rep.

I am on the board of directors for my state's structural engineers association. I sent an e-mail to the other borad members that we notify the our state dept. of consumer protection and contact NCSEA to have them put pressure on the states from a national level.

WE should all contact our local structural engineers associations and have them address this and put pressure on the states he is currently registered in.

 

[CSEllc]

I neglected to mention, we should also contact both the national and local chapters of ASCE, SEI, CASE, NSPE and ACEC about this and urge them to put pressure on the states not to allow this.

This type of operation must be stopped for not only our benefit but more importantly for the safety of thge general public.

On this website, we constatntly see questions from people who have no clue about engineering. With this type of service, unfortunately, those people are the one's who will be mis-lead and suffer the consequences.

 

[CSEllc]

Another member of our states structural engineers association input a fictious project into his questionaire.

The project was basically a 15 sheet project that needed a NY stamp. The website quoted a price of $85 to stamp the drawings.

He has a disclaimer to "release" him from liability which reads
"Respondent agrees an engineer reviewing and affixing seals to their documents, is in their employ, and is advised that the presenting and responsible party is responsible for the content of the documents, and an engineer employed in this manner, and not as an independent consultant, is protected from liability. Respondent is aware the presenting and responsible party demonstrates through their documents, intent on compliance with the codes as determined by the authority requiring the seal. Respondent also agrees any liability arising from use of the sealed documents, is the responsibility of those who retain and expect benefit from use of the documents, such the presenting and responsible party, the property owner(s), and contractors involved, and not EngineerApprovals.com."

 

[CSEllc]

Just keeping eveyone updated on the unfolding story......

I sent an e-mail to a friend of mine who is involved with SEI.

Attached are his comments:

"I have shared your information with the SEI board and have heard that this made the rounds yesterday with the Structure magazine group, and it has been said he's being sued in several jurisdictions, so I don't think he'll be in business very long.

Also, his website says that "It is understood the sealed documents are the property of the Respondents, and EngineerApprovals.com makes no claim to the information contained therein"

…so, I would think most boards would not let this individual practice in their state, even though they may allow "plan stamping".

Thanks for bringing this issue to my attention. I will update you on other measures that is taken or are suggested."

 

[JAE]

I'm quite impressed with how many stepped in here and responded to this unfortunate situation. I wonder how much this Eng-Tips thread energized all the activity. (not the lawsuits of course).

 

[Lutfi]

This web site really ruffled my feathers. This is plans stamping! It is not allowed in Florida. However, it did not stop some PEs from doing it in the past.

I will share this with the ASCE membership in my area. I will also forward the information to our Board so that they can keep an eye on such activities.

I hope that no Florida PEs participate in this act!

 

[CSEllc]

Just a quick update on what additional information I received.

I have attched portions of two e-mails that I rec'd....They give you the jest of what has been happening.

The first is from ASCE General Councel......"I understand the Pennsylvania Society of Professional Engineers has gotten involved in contacting the engineer who is running this site. I also spoke to one ASCE member in Alabama who reported this to the Alabama State Licensing Board, which likely can't do much more than send a letter to the state licensing boards in Pennsylvania, Maryland, New Jersey and New York, where the engineer apparently is licensed. This would appear to be a clear violation of the Pennsylvania licensing regulations, which provide that "[a] registrant may use his seal and signature only when the work being sealed and signed was prepared by the registrant or under the registrant's complete direction and control." See <

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/049/chapter37/s37.59.html>

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/049/chapter37/s37.59.html.

The Pennsylvania Licensing Board tells me the individual is a licensed P.E. in Pennsylvania in good standing. Although he is not an ASCE member, I sent him an e-mail last week advising him of the Pennsylvania regulations and apparent clear infraction, with a suggestion that he immediately cease this practice. I would not expect this to continue very long in light of the many communications and contacts on this issue, but I agree it certainly has mobilized the engineering community and brought attention to the important issue of sealing plans."

Next.is from thye West Virginia Dept of Consumer Protectoion's Office......."FYI...

This information has been circulating over the past few weeks. Many of the state board investigators are on top of this and all states have been alerted via the NCEES listserve. I expect there will be several to take action if appropriate (my understanding is that he is only licensed in 3-5 states). Our engineering professionals are very observant and word travels fast. I received about 50 similar emails from other engineers in the past few weeks regarding the service. It is producing lively discussion and discontent! Stay tuned!"