Confidentiality and Noncompete Agreement 2.5 years into employement 5

[uGlay]

so i was just handed (actually the entire department) a non-compete agreement. everyone promptly signed it with no questions however my role in the firm is that of a mechanical design and i am constantly creating solutions for mechanical problems which require creative thinking and design.

i would have no problem with it except for the fact that a few weeks ago i was in talks of patenting one of the products which i have worked on for over a year.

so basically i was in talks of including my name in the patent of such product (since i pretty much came up with the solution) I as well as project managers and engineers thought it would be fair for my name to be on the document.

now ive been handed this paper, to everyone it was like 'whatever' because everyone else is doing electrical design which there aint much to it just a bunch of lines in cad (ok ok im exaggerating) but everyone signed it. and im the only one who hasnt signed it.

anyways, sorry for my post if it is a bit unorganized but i am a bit shaken right now..

what would you do fellow Eng-r's. I am torn. they are saying i either sign it or im done for in this company.

basically the doc starts with "Whereas employee desires to become or remain employed..."


p.s. ive signed many NDA's with no issues, but this case is different because i was in talks of furthering a patent. Its offensive.

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[Ron]

BTB...In the US, there are two requirements for enforceability...is the geographical restriction reasonable and is the time period reasonable. If both are deemed reasonable, it is generally enforceable.

There is a large national engineering firm that requires signing an NCA...they are very successful in enforcing it within a certain distance of ANY of their US offices, and for a period of 1 year.

 

[NomLaser]

Last company that I worked for had me sign one on the way in. When they let me go, I asked for a list of companies that I couldn't work for. They failed to produce one so I ignored it when looking for new work.

 

[btrueblood]

Ron,

If the NCA made an ex-employee un-employable during that year, and he was not "fairly compensated" for lost wages during that time, he could have a pretty good chance of recovering damages from said large firm. Granted, what is "fairly compensated" can only be answered by a jury, and you have to pay the ticket (attorney fees) to get the answer...

 

[looslib]

Some US military officers when they retire are restricted from working for certain companies.
I have one friend who can never work for Boeing because of the contracts he oversaw while in the Army.


"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

 

[uGlay]

Well here goes an update.

I set up an appointment with the division manager in late july. He came down from Headquarters and I sat down with him in private to talk about the nca/nda among other things.

I made all my points clear and he wrote everything down. After conversing about duties and what is expected etc etc i told him my final statement was that "i would not sign the nca/nda in its current form unless it was ammended to implicitly state that I would be included in any/all patents for any/all products i worked on"

After that meeting there has been complete silence in regard to the nca/nda... i never heard anything from him again even though he said he would be meeting with the legal team to reformulate the document. i dont know what to make of it but i still have my job....

Regarding the patent that was being contemplated. The project which i was working on that required a patent hit a major roadblock and now needs to be fully redesigned due to customer's specifications.

THE KICKER, due to the 'economic downturn' there has been a lot of internal reorganization in the company now there are talks of patenting a lot of products we have designed, sold and kept stored in our system over the years. HA!! so now that everyone has signed the paper they are ready to start patenting.

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[IRstuff]

From the USPTO rules:

§ 1.46 Assigned inventions and patents.
In case the whole or a part interest in the invention or in the patent to be issued is assigned, the application must still be made or authorized to be made, and an oath or declaration signed, by the inventor or one of the persons mentioned in §§ 1.42, 1.43, or 1.47. However, the patent may be issued to the assignee or jointly to the inventor and the assignee as provided in § 3.81.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[MacGyverS2000]

THE KICKER, due to the 'economic downturn' there has been a lot of internal reorganization in the company now there are talks of patenting a lot of products we have designed, sold and kept stored in our system over the years.

Maybe I misunderstand you, but if a design has been sold or reveled to the public domain already, getting a patent on it is going to be...well, shall we say, "difficult".

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[msquared48]

Reasonably, there sould be a time limit to the non-compete clause.

Wiyth the advice of my lawyer, I would add a clause of my own to the contract, since it technically is a counteroffer to the current employment status, that the same time limit will apply to any layoff or firing of you by the company for any reason, accoppanied by pre-determined raises and yearly bonuses, etc., for your involvement in this and any future patents for the company. Use your imagination.

If they want to renegotiate employment for you, then renegotiate to your benefit. Otherwise, take your cookies to the competitor. They started this legal charade - you finish it.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask

 

[beej67]

If you're in Georgia, they now have the right to prevent you from working in your field of expertise for several years after you quit or are fired with non-compete agreements. It's nasty, and ugly, and all sorts of other things inappropriate to say in a public forum.

Check that.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[uGlay]

they sent out an email reminder on march 17th and then a day later i was called into the conference room and let go from the company.

"position eliminated" was the reason...







Tony Suarez, Design & Engineering

http://www.alphawolftech.com

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[MacGyverS2000]

I would request a list of who was let go broken down by age, race, sex, percentage let go from department worked for, etc. Names will not be included, of course. They must provide you with this information. If your release sticks out like a sore thumb, you have a lawsuit to file.


Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[Ron]

uGlay....BS....document all that you have outlined here and establish your case. Sounds like they let you go without probable cause.

Good luck.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Has anyone mentioned that corporations are NOT able to patent anything? Only a person(s) can apply for and be issued a patent. Granted, he (they) may have signed a 'patent agreement' assigning the 'rights' to the patent over to their employer (I've signed one with every employer I've worked for) but that does not mean that he (they) will not get proper recognition by having his (their) name included on the patent itself (I'm co-inventor on 2 U.S. Patents, both of which were assigned to my employer but my name still appears as one of the 'inventors').

BTW, your employer MUST pay the inventors for the rights to any patent assigned to the company, but legally it can be as low as one dollar. In my case, my employer paid me and my fellow co-inventor $200 (after taxes) each, for each of the 2 patents which I was an inventor on (this was back in the 70's so $200 actually could buy you something decent). We also got a $100 for each patentable idea presented to management even if a patent was never actually issued (over about an 8 year period I collected an addtional $400 of walking-around money from my submissions of new and/or unique ideas).

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[YoungTurk]

That sucks.

Given the time elapsed and your previous mention of difficulties on the project and 'economic downturn', it might prove difficult to do anthing productive about it. Consider the stress, expense, and effect on your employability shoud you choose to retaliate.

Fortunately, you have no barrier preventing you from offering your services elsewhere, including any competitors who may find your ideas worth something.

Best of luck.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Personally, I'd weigh heavily the potential for a multi-million $ lawsuit if my facts and documentation were strong enough... ;-)

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[moltenmetal]

You got screwed over. Call the lawyers...

 

[FACS]

OH man, that's funny as hell. What a great read this was.



Charlie

http://www.facsco.com

 

[MacGyverS2000]

OH man, that's funny as hell. What a great read this was.

Inside joke?

The man was release from his employment, quite possibly in an illegal manner... I'm not quite seeing the hilarious part.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[FACS]

Yeah, I knew as soon as I posted that, someone would take it to task. I can’t be the only person that reads that entire year-long drama, and find it funny.

Moltenmetal gave this guy perfect advice several times, and this guy just passed it over. He asked for advice, he got fantastic advice, and he ignored it. His arrogance did him in, and I find it funny.

He completely disrespected Electrical Engineers, claiming that all they do is lines on AutoCad; that’s an incredibly self-centered position. “Just because” they are Electrical Engineers, they signed the papers? His narcissistic behavior at this point made me chuckle. He really thinks he is something special. Yet, all those Electrical Engineers still have their jobs… I bet.

First off, if he would have conveyed just a touch of conventional wisdom, he would have signed the Non-compete knowing full well it means absolutely nothing if signed “under duress”. Moltenmetal pointed that out quite well. This topic is covered in Business Law; it’s common knowledge that an employer that has you sign a non-disclosure after a 2.5-year employment isn’t going to have a leg to stand on. Therefore, sign the paper and move on; keep your job and if by some odd chance you do go to work for a competitor, it’s not going to be much of a problem. Why would anyone in their right mind, fret over something that most likely, isn’t even going to happen?

Stubborn Arrogance.


Then we have the whole patent issue. Of all the things I have invented, and there are now hundreds, I’ve only had my name on three USA patents. This guys understanding of how the world works is quite naïve. If you want to own a patent, come up with a solution to a problem on your own. Pay out the big bucks to a patent attorney, wait years for fruition, and hope to God your idea was good enough to generate a return. Chances are, it won’t. The vast majority of patents don’t make a cent. Companies put patents in place to hold off competition for a while, but most patents are circumvented anyhow.

He even said that the customer changed the specifications so the patent was a no go anyhow. He wouldn’t even be working on it if it were not for someone else.

IF you are hired to design for a company, that company legally pays you a nominal amount of money, and has you sign a contract that legally turns over all your ideas to them. I always got a dollar. I’ll sign anything because it usually means nothing. I’m still breathing. Life shouldn’t be that complicated. Lighten up.

But in the real world, understand that you probably would NEVER come up with a patent-able idea if you were not already employed by a company which presents the problems to you. You get paid to invent solutions to problems that someone else comes up with. You get paid to solve problems that others thought of. You enter the work force into companies that already exist, and you continue to on a path that others have set. Be wise, and continue on that path for as long as you can. Do not jeopardize your career with foolish self-centered notions on how you “think” things should be.

With this, I find the guy getting exactly what he deserved. If he’s so great, I suspect that we will soon be hearing about his fantastic inventions in the news. Certainly, he is superior to the rest of the world, and he will be thinking up clever solutions to all our problems… on his own… for his own company.

So it’s probably going to work out great for him. This is probably going to be the best thing that ever happened to him. I wish his brilliant-self many returns on his fantastic inventions. I suspect he is now forming his own company, and he is going to have the happiest employees around.

So as I read this entire post for the first time, in it’s entirety. I got to the part where he got canned, and yeah, coffee spit out my nose… sorry, sue me… it’s funny.



Charlie

http://www.facsco.com

 

[FACS]

Another note on Non compete agreements. I see a lot of misconceptions. Everyone has the right to work and make a living. If you get fired for any reason other than outright insubordination, you get to work for anyone you want. You have a right to make a living, and no one can stop you. Non competes are in place to stop employees from gathering institutional knowledge, and taking it to a competitor.

If you get fired, you an work anywhere you want. Non-competes are incredibly hard to defend, and very expensive. Most companies don't bother, and really don't even need to know where you work.

Charlie

http://www.facsco.com