Connection detail of two reversed columns between floors 1

[h-badawy]

Dear experts
Can I connect two columns in different orientation between two floors as below sketch, and if it could be done , what is the appropriate detail connection of this case?.

Thank you

Thank you

 

[dik]

It can be done, but you could be looking at a pretty massive cap plate on the column below or base plate on the column above and some really long bolts.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[h-badawy]

Thank you dik

Yes i know that is not practically, and i agree with you in this regard but i want to make a small exercise to prove this issue to the designer, but i didn’t not find any source for such a connection.


Thank you

 

[jayrod12]

It's more of a first principles kind of thing compared to a codified connection detail. A lot would depend whether it's just supposed to be a pinned connection, or whether you need to transfer moment across the connection.

Yes possible, yes generally expensive. It's more one of those, why would you do it this way type things.

 

[h-badawy]

I don’t want to make this connection, i am a design reviewer for this project and the designer use this column as frame resisting system in the lower floor in Y-direction and cantilever for 4m parapet height in X-direction. I am try to convince him to rotate the column in the lower level and use a portal column to compensate the inertia used in the frame resisting system.but he is too much stubborn and need a prove that is wrong and can not be done.Theoretically we can do anything, but constructibility and economically not practical.

Thank you

 

[dik]

I occasionally do things that can't be done, or shouldn't be done... but, you have to be very careful.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[271828]

Can they change to an HSS column?

There is no typical "canned" connection type for what you've described. It could be done, but it would be expensive.

 

[KootK]

Something along these lines would deal with axial load.

 

[jayrod12]

I'd be a big fan of Koot's detail with a full depth stiffener in the low column at the bottom of the tee section, welded to the web and flanges of both the Tee and the low column on each side. I can't prove it's required, but I know I'd certainly feel a heck of a lot better.

 

[KootK]

You could do something like this with shims. Integrating it with whatever your moment frame connections are will be a challenge though.

 

[KootK]

I can't prove it's required, but I know I'd certainly feel a heck of a lot better.

I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up at some extra torsional stability within the joint. It would be spiffy if, somehow, a pair of such plates could serve double duty as the beam moment connection continuity plates. It would be tough to get all of that stuff in there though.

 

[dik]

I think thick baseplates are the least costly...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[KootK]

 

[DrZoidberWoop]

Koot's sketch is what I've seen done in most cases.

Here's an example of a thick plate slapped on the top of a column on a current job, where the upper and lower columns do not align. This was a non-seismic compression-only splice w/ about 30 degrees of misalignment tho, so take it for what it's worth.

 

[dik]

I like your thick baseplates...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik