Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions 9

[pkelecy]

My company is considering buying a seat of Solid Edge, and I have a couple of questions:

1. How stable is it (honestly)? I ask because I just attended an SE seminar where the guy demoing it bombed his laptop 3 times in 60 mins! He said it was a graphics driver issue. Perhaps. But if I were demoing software to prospective customers, I would make absolutely sure I was using qualified hardware. So I suspect a software problem (especially given it's a new release).

2. We have someone new coming on board who has prior experience with *SolidWorks* (not Solid Edge). How hard would it be for him to make that transition? I've heard they have similar interfaces, so perhaps not too bad. His experience is with an older version (he currently uses Inventor, which we're not considering) - so there with will be some transition for him even with SolidWorks. Just not as much, I expect.

We're also considering SolidWorks, so any feedback on how these two compare would be appreciated also. We design and build electric motors and actuators at our facility. So our needs are pretty basic (at least at this point) - part and small assembly models, prints for fabrication, revisions of existing designs to accommodate new applications or customer needs, etc. I'm sure either package will work. Ease of use, stability, good support when we need it -those are really the main factors. We tend to have more work than time so we're looking for a tool that will make us the most productive.

Thanks for any feedback on this. I appreciate it. -Pat

 

[KENAT]

pkelecy, where are you in the world? Here in SB CA we get to work directly with Siemans not through a VAR.

Also, take a look at thread724-223361.

It's a bit more general than this thread but may have some usefull stuff.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[pkelecy]

PatCouture - Thanks for the advice. I do have a rather wicked modeling problem that would be a good test (imagine a long ribbon that is wound in a helix, so it's 3D, but rather than following a circular path its actually follows something that looks more like "cloverleaf" as you look at it along its axis). BTW, this represents an actually part of ours. It's a form it takes during an intermediate fabrication step. I need to design a fixture to support it while in that shape, so having such a model would be very useful. I may just have them try that!

KENAT - I'm located in southern Indiana (near Lousiville, KY). I wasn't aware you could work directly Siemens. I thought you had to go through a local var. The one I'm working with is located in Indianapolis (associated with Appropriate Technology). I have to say though I really like him. He's actually an ME that does mechanical design work as his main business. So supporting SE is really more of a sideline. But he's been great to work with so far, and to be honest I find myself strongly leaning toward SE just because of him.

Anyway, thanks for the CAD selection link. Looks like some good info!

Pat

 

[swertel]

The one main benefit of SE is that you work directly with Siemen's for technical support or the VAR if you wish, as long as you're in the US. I have to say, the people at GTAC (Siemen's tech support) are fabulous and I don't ever call my VAR unless I need to buy another license.

Once you buy SE, you will be able to sign up for a webkey which grants you access to the "members only" portion of Siemen's, including their private community newsgroup. I know other packages also require you to be on active maintenance in order to have access to the exclusive perks. I just bring this up because the private newsgroup is where the real support is at. Eng-tips comes in 2nd and is used mainly by those without a webkey, but the real power-users are in the newsgroup. You also get responses directly from the Director of SE Development.

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro

 

[pkelecy]

Scott, - Thanks for the info. It made me realize I probably misunderstood KENAT's comment on working directly with Siemens. I believe he meant for *support*. Yes, I knew that, and I've heard GTAC is pretty good. I hope they let me try it out during my trial. Purchasing is through a var only I believe (which was my confusion).

I see from your website you use Alibre also. That's an option that was also suggested, given our small size and basic needs. The price is certainly right! How do you like it compared to SE? Just curious.

-Pat

 

[KENAT]

We don't use a VAR, we work directly with Siemans. The Siemans sales person visits every now and then, they come and do demos, lunch & learns etc. We place orders directly with them.

Back in the UK we had it through a VAR, and we didn't have any real support but I'm not sure if that's just cause IT didn't give us the information or what.

I don't know how they decide who/where has to go through a VAR and who deals direct with Siemans. Once you get into negotiations with a VAR though you may be commited to them.

We were looking at a PLM install and invited in various vendors in as well as Siemans themselves as we were interested not just in getting software but having the supplier help with the implementaion. So we got presentations on Teamcenter from both Siemans direct and a VAR. Siemans put together a better package so we went with them for more detailed project definition etc. The VAR kicked up a stink saying we'd commited to them etc, which wasn't the case, but it got ugly for a little while.

Anyway that's a side track, if you local VAR seems really good that's a definite plus then for SE.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[swertel]

I don't want to take this too far off topic, but more info about the SE Var vs. Siemens discussions.

Siemens is currently redefining the Value in their Value Added Reseller program. Resellers are the local focus, local training, local seminars, etc. But, Siemens has also started to implement regional offices that better oversee their VARs and provide regional focus, regional training, and regional seminars. Well, when you happen to live in the same metropolis as Siemens and a VAR like I do, then there is a bit of conflict, but otherwise it seems to be much better and works well synergistically. Basically, the regional Siemens rep provides logistics and support for the local reseller and puts on larger events that a local independent may not be able to afford.

pkelecy, the discussion of Alibre compared to SE is best suited for either another thread or a private discussion. Since those topics tend to spark flame wars, I'm going to recommend you email directly and I can answer specific questions or point-by-point comparisons. Link my signature, find me email address - I make it all too easy. I typically don't like to pull potentially helpful info away from eng-tips, but this is one of those exceptions.

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro

 

[Sabastian7]

Hi, I made a typo in an earlier reply. The solid edge tutorials are at

http://www.solidedgetutorials.com/buy.html

Sorry to lead anyone astray!

 

[HDS]

pkelecy

You can not do to through of an evaluation. Last place I worked got tired of evaluating software and just bought one based on the demo. It turns out that they could not make their most important part which was 50% of their buisness! They never even got the software deployed

Do every step you think you might do such as assembly configurations, drawings, import & export. Test compatibility with your downstream software like CAM packages.

I have found issues with both SE and SW that made some jobs imposable but most of them were complicated and challenged high end packages.

During the eval test out the support at GTAC.

 

[beachcomber]

pkelecy -
how are you getting on? - we haven't heard from you for a while.
While you are evaluating, I would suggest reading this forum (which I suspect you are anyway) and the forums for any other package you are going to evaluate, to see what problems people are having, and what solutions are offered.
Then test out the 'problems' in the other packages.

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

 

[pkelecy]

Hi bc,

Well, I've completed my trial of SE. A month really wasn't enough time to try out everything I would have liked (I never got to sheet metal or FEA, and just a little drafting). But overall I feel I got a pretty good taste of what SE is like. My impressions so far are a little mixed, to be honest. SE is no doubt a very powerful application (definitely more capable than Cobalt, what I currently use). That has both its good and bad aspects. The good side is that it can do a lot, and I was very impressed with it capabilities, particularly with regard to constraint handling, parametrics (the use of variables, part families, etc) and assemblies. The bad side though is that all that capability introduces a lot of complexity (at least in comparison to what I'm use to) and a steeper learning curve. The number of options available when using some of the tools was a bit over whelming at times, and some things that seemed like they should have been simple (ie patterning) weren't always in order to accommodate the variety of special cases a user might have. All that complexity made it seem unintuitive at times, and by that I mean I wasn't always able to figure out how use a tool or perform a certain operation by just playing with it. It often took careful study of the documentation to figure things out, and sometimes even that wasn't enough (hence all my questions here in this forum). But looking back on it, I think once one was over the learning curve and comfortable using it, SE would be a pretty efficient application to work in. My worry though is that my CAD usage is somewhat sporadic, and without the constant exposure to it I might never get to that comfort level that makes an application efficient (and enjoyable) to use. That tends to be problem in particular with complex applications.

I now getting ready to start trial of SolidWorks (hope to start it this week, in fact) and will be interested in seeing how it compares. I expect though that since it's comparable in features and capabilities, it will also be comparable in complexity and learning curve. If so, I'm not sure which way I'll go.

Thanks again for all the help while doing this. It definitely made things go more smoothly.

Pat

 

[KENAT]

pkelecy, if you use sheet metal much then it's a shame you didn't get to play with in in SE, it's generally regarded as one of its strong points.

As to what you say about effectively being a 'part time' user, I have that problem these days. The last 18 months or so I haven't spent as much time doing CAD and certainly haven't got my head around some of the changes in the last couple of releases. The only thing I have going for me is I've used SE enough to kind of understand 'how it thinks' so can learn new stuff fairly quick. I also long ago learnt how to use the help in SE, I find it one of the best I've used, better than any MS office help, but that may just be 'cause I've used it a lot.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[karmoh]

Hi pkelecy,

The mixed response you are encountering is normal. SE like others has it idiosyncrasies
The best advice I can give is to learn what you need at that given time. In the early days I used to have workflow sheets that were a hybrid of the printed help and my own notes. These helped immensely when, like yourself I would come up against a problem or a particular situation every couple of months

I have been successfully using SE since V7 and today like in the real world I will find a new and interesting aspect to SE and say “%^$&” I didn’t know I could do that and all this time I was doing that way. We never stop learning and this is one of the most enjoyable aspects of working with the likes of SE

This is by far the most informative forum; some of the regular posters have vast knowledge, unlike other forums for SW etc, where you have to wade through the chaff to get to the wheat.

I often wondered why SE was not supported as much as others on the web with tutorials and workarounds and used to put this down to sales and usage, but I’m inclined to think that it also due to its logical workflow and the users, who have brought a tool particular to their needs and not purchased SW or ProE due to hype or peer pressure.

Sheetmetal is my business and SE by far out scores every other 3D parametric software on the market.

 

[beachcomber]

Been using it since version 3 - and still learning !!!

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

"This is by far the most informative forum; some of the regular posters have vast knowledge, unlike other forums for SW etc, where you have to wade through the chaff to get to the wheat."

Cough, splutter, groan, harumph ... and other sounds of overacted indignation! Where's my defibrillator?

 

[beachcomber]

CBL -
Having seen your postings on the 'other' forum, I can definitely say you come into the category of wheat (first class grade), and I'm sure pkelecy will be making use of your vast knowledge in the near future.


bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

A

http://www shucks

 

[pkelecy]

"...and I'm sure pkelecy will be making use of your vast knowledge in the near future"

Well, I hope to, but I'm still trying the separate the "wheat from the chaff" among the SW VARs!

I've talked to two and haven't cared for either. So now I'm looking for a third. SE may get my business my default!

Pat

 

[seating1]

pkelecy,

Five years ago at a different company I had the task of evaluating what software we would move to from ACad. We went with SE because of the fact the SW VAR was really pushing us to make a decision one day after he gave the demo. We went with SE. I have never really used SW so I have no real opinion on it. When I came to my current job they had just gotten SE but had been using SW. All I would hear is we were able to do this or that is SW how come we can't do it in SE. In just about every case I was able to show them how to do it in SE they just did not like that they could not do it like they did it in SW. I am 100% happy with SE and also do find that GTAC is really helpful with anything I have thrown their way.

JK

 

[pkelecy]

JK,

Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate it.

I can also relate to it somewhat. I'm currently doing a trial of SW (just started it a week ago) but find myself leaning towards SE, mainly because of some negative opinions I've developed of the SW vars. I've worked with two (the first I dropped because he wouldn't give me a trial unless I sat though a demo), but even the second has not been that accommodating. I had to argue for a 30, rather than 15 day trial. I was about to look for a third var when reason finally set in. I could go on, but I don't want this to turn into a rant. In fairness, the vars themselves were pretty nice guys. I think they were mainly following the prescribed corporate marketing strategy (which stinks, imo). I definitely prefer Siemens to Dassault.

You indicated your current employer switched from SW to SE? That's interesting. What prompted that move (if you don't mind me asking)?

Pat