Construction experience 1

[CElder2]

Hi, I'm an EIT with a little short of 4 years experience. One of the biggest things that irks me as an up-and-coming professional is that I don't have a solid grasp of construction methods or practices.

On many occasions through my short career, I've gotten QC markups on my plan regarding construction, sometimes contradictory information to be honest. One PM I worked for always wanted a few foot or so between the LOD and the actual end of grading for truck turn-around. Another engineer I worked for instructed to put the LOD right up against the contours in order to minimize the LOD area. I get the sense that these are one of these things that will get "figured out in the field." This is just a small example.

As a land development engineer, what's the most efficient way to learn about construction as it applies to land development? Should I eventually quit and get a job as
(1) construction laborer
(2) construction project manager
(3) construction engineer
(4) construction inspector
(5) surveyer

Or do I stay in land development as an office engineer and eventually I will get sent out "into the field"? Of course, I don't know what that entails because I've never been out in the field.

I've made an effort to read up on construction methods and I feel its helped. However, I don't have any books that would tell me, for example, the amount of space that a contractor wants between the LOD and the limits of grading. It seems like there comes a point where you actually need to get out there and see what's actually going on.

 

[SlideRuleEra]

I suggest a job as a Construction Engineer - then you will be involved in uncovering and solving field problems.

No matter how many "field visits" made as an Office Engineer, you remain a spectator not a participant in problems solving. Participation is the way to learn the most about field operations.

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[Ron]

Excellent advice, as always, from SlideRuleEra. I would offer one additional suggestion....assuming you want to return to design/consulting work at some point. Don't stay too long as a Construction Engineer for one company or get pigeon-holed on a single project. Rather than giving you 10 years of experience, that is more likely to give you 1 year of experience, 10 times.

Work on as many projects as you can get. See the diversity of handling issues as they arise in the field. Immerse yourself bottom-to-top in the construction and relate the design and construction as you go. It will make you a better engineer, a more competent consultant and certainly a better design engineer if you choose that route at some point.

You might also consider taking a course in a construction management curriculum. I teach in one such program and we have a course called "Construction Techniques" that takes you from the construction contract through the foundation and ultimately to the roof, covering a variety of topics including the structure, the materials, the techniques and how to stay prevent bad outcomes!

Many colleges and universities have a similar course. I know that most of the universities in the southeast US that have construction management programs have a similar course including Clemson, Auburn, University of North Florida, University of Florida and others.

A course in construction is not; however, a substitute for muddy boots....so start sloshing and good luck.

 

[CElder2]

Okay thanks a lot guys.

I just have a follow up.

I'm hoping to get a little bit more detail on duties for a construction engineer as distinct from a construction PM.

The reason I ask is even though "construction engineering" has its own wikipedia page, when I search for "Construction Engineer" on indeed.com, the title itself provides no hits within a 100 mile radius. So it'd be helpful to have a sense of what typical duties to look for.

What I usually find on the construction side are openings for "Project Manager" and seems like the main focus is on scheduling, MS Project, and CPM method. Another position title I'm seeing a few hits for is "Field Engineer," which from reading a few descriptions, seems like an assistant superintendent of sorts.

 

[Ron]

CElder2....you are essentially correct on both definitions. A construction engineer is different than either. It is an engineer who serves at a level higher than a PM and is typically a liaison between designers and the construction team, having an understanding of both sides. Unfortunately, this additional level can only be supported by larger construction projects (usually heavy civil, such as dams, major bridges, etc.). The US Army Corps of Engineers has this position as well.

BigH, one of the long-time members of Eng-Tips, serves that function though I don't know if that's his actual title. He has tremendous experience internationally. Hopefully he'll chime in here.

 

[Lomarandil]

Agreed, it's kind of a niche role -- a hybrid between a contractor's field engineer and a designer. Some of the large contractors have in-house construction engineering departments (sometimes called temporary structures groups). Otherwise you're looking for a specialty contractor that takes on complex projects, or to come at a similar role from the owner's or designer's company.

Unfortunately, all of my knowledge of this is based on the heavy civil and structural sides of construction engineering. I don't know whether there's a good parallel focused specifically on Land Development. You could probably pick up transferable skills and knowledge working on a big infrastructure project though -- I'd imagine the big highway or rail projects have a lot in common (at least earthwork!).

 

[CElder2]

Just to clarify, essentially what I had in mind was on-the-ground experience with grading, E&S control, pavement construction, and utility/SWM installations. I would imagine, even if its a big project, by virtue of disturbing ground, there will be requirements to install storm, E&S control, and stormwater management facilities.

Yeah I would imagine that any construction that involves disturbing dirt and changing ground elevations would trigger the usual land development issues - grading, earthwork, SWM, E&S control, and storm utilities. The issue is, what's the best role to take on in order to get into the mix of things and get a good exposure to what's going on overall.

It sounds like remaining as an office engineer is not a good way (which confirms my experience so far). It also sounds like a construction engineer position would be ideal but may not be a good fit given my circumstances.

The other question mark is on the "project manager" position which seems to be somewhat common even for entry-level. I guess my only concern with this position is that it sounds more like an admin role. In other words, is it just another "spectator" position as far as field operations -- taking input from others and creating schedules + processing paperwork, or is there some problem-solving involved.

 

[SlideRuleEra]

CElder2 - However Wikipedia describes a "Construction Engineer", it should be replaced with the descriptions provided by Ron and Lomarandil. I've worked with a lot of Construction Engineers on industrial projects - what they do is exactly as described above. The best I can tell, that is the type experience you are looking for.

Perhaps if you broadened the scope of the type projects you are researching you will find something more suitable. I'll give an example. Say, you find job opportunities for construction of a new industrial plant - no mention of land development. A little "digging" on your part may reveal an opportunity in site work for the plant. Just a relatively small part of the overall project... but a small part of a large project can be quite challenging. Heed Ron's warning about 1 year of experience multiple times, however.

Another possibility, investigate land development opportunities at locations that have really "BAD" soils. You will learn a lot - real quick.

http://www.SlideRuleEra.net

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[Terratek]

My .02:

Actual field work, while difficult and challenging, is not rocket science. I worked as a field engineer for the last year of college (full time during breaks and part time during the semester). I can honestly tell you that even though I helped create an elementary school from a grassy field through tilt-walls to finish out, I didn't really see much more than what I could visualize with some site visits and informative conversations.

So, at the risk of completely contradicting others, I feel that site visits and asking questions really gets you where you need to be without killing yourself actually doing construction.

Oh, and construction engineer, in my neck of the woods, is really just someone who serves part or all of the more classic forms of foreman, PM and/or superintendent. Only very large outfits like Turner Construction or the likes have true construction engineers, but they are involved in drawing with Revit, rendering and such for construction sequencing. Probably other stuff I don't know about, too.

 

[nkrigPE]

You've kind of missed the boat in how I would advise one to obtain a solid understanding of what goes on in the field.

The process I followed, and most of the good engineers I know, spent time working either in construction or as a construction inspector for TxDOT or a municipality while they were in college. That way they came into the design setting with an idea of what the building process involved and where construction issues were likely to arise.

I would also say going to work for a geotech/cmt firm would get you good exposure to field work while still utilizing your engineering talents. At this point if you want to stay in design I would make an effort to establish a relationship with the superintendents on the site and spend time on the job during each phase of construction, asking lots of questions. Hopefully you have supervisors that see the value in this exercise.