Consulting Section 15

[said the noob]

why is it that the consulting sector in Engineering generally is less lucrative than other industries such as Finance Consultants? and compared to other sectors such as oil and gas, EPC, utilities, generally are less lucrative? I feel like as structural engineers there is alot more risk in what we do but get paid less?

tia

 

[WinelandV]

, let them appeal to the Board.

That's going to require a massive upsizing in the role of most state boards. At least here in the Midwest, it appears that being a board member is definitely a side-gig for the members (at best). Not saying it can't or couldn't be done, just a lot of distance from here to there.

 

[KootK]

I've tried to change my role as well.

It hurt my heart a little to hear this. In part, because I hear strong echos of my own frustrations in your comments. In all my travels, I've never met anyone in person who appeared to be as into structural engineering as I am. And I think that much of that passion manifests itself here on the forum. I sometimes wonder if that creates the false impression that I've got things figured out to any greater extent than anyone else. That KootK! He must have it all figured out. He must spend his days designing skyscraper outriggers and rolling around in gold doubloons!. I'm sure that nobody actually thinks that but you get the idea.

The truth is that I've also made active attempts to change my role:

1) I was offered a PM job with the city engineering department. About the same money, 32 hrs per week of soft labor, and a defined benefit PENSION! Naturally, I said no to that nonsense. Imagine all that relaxing time that I'd have to spend with my family? Oh, the horror.

2) I was offered a PM job with a building envelope firm. No pension but way better fees and way better hours. I do work with these guys as a sub and they are literally able to charge 2X what I charge them for my own work. And it doesn't raise an eyebrow with their clients. Somehow, they're better at selling my structural service than I am. But envelope isn't cool like structural is... so I persist.

In a way, having had these opportunities and turned them down has made things worse. Now I'm an active participant in my own suffering rather than just a passive victim. Self flagellation. I look back fondly upon the days when I was just a passive victim.

I don't hate competition.

I don't hate poor folks in developing countries.

I don't hate more lucrative professions.

What I hate is that my relationship with structural engineering is such that I give it everything that I've got and what little I get back in return always feels woefully out of proportion. It's like having a terrible girlfriend. I'm a lowly 5.0 and she's a sexy 9.5. Decades in, she still wants to see other people and only comes over late at night when she's drunk and looking to score. In the morning I wake up feeling foolish for not having the balls to just walk away and for continuing to throw good metaphorical money after bad.

In short, know that I absolutely share in your frustrations.

 

[WARose]

Thanks for the thoughts Kootk. Part of looking at a new "role" for myself from time to time is not just the squeeze getting put on us by economic pressure(s)......it's best illustrated by what happened to this guy in N.C.. Sometimes I get to the end of stuff and think: have I missed anything with the way I've been rushed through this? I take my oath as far as public safety very seriously.....and I don't want to be responsible for someone getting injured or killed. That would be tough to live with.

 

[NorthCivil]

I've been involved in quite a few high rise curtainwall projects, and as such, worked with a lot of different Chinese engineers. It is quite common these days for high rise curtainwall to be pre-fabricated in China, and for the Chinese curtainwall suppliers to provide full engineering calculations to local codes.

All of the Chinese engineers I've worked with have been quite proficient at calculations, proficient in western codes. Great detail. this is impressive if you consider they don't speak english well. I've spoken to them directly, and its also impressive that they are usually well versed in chinese, american, canadian, australian, british and EU codes.

The problem is that they are too numbers focused, and do not make many engineering judgment calls. there is no concept of capacity design.

Our fees to have them perform the work, and have us review and stamp are around 80% of what we would charge to just do the engineering ourselves. we review the calcs in detail and carry out several back and forth rounds of review. This is the norm, from speaking with other engineering companies involved in this industry.

 

[StrucDesignPE]

As an EIT, I am looking forward to a long career in structural engineering. The way I look at is as long as there are incompetent contractors making welds with rebar as filler, my job is safe.

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=447240

I had an old boss tell me one time that "engineers design buildings just fine, but they are terrible businessmen." The engineers I know don't usually like this aspect of the business. They feel more comfortable with a pencil and calculator in hand than sitting for an interview with a prospective client. If good engineers want to get the good jobs, sometimes it means getting out of our comfort zone and selling ourselves a little better. Just my $0.02.

 

[P205]

The way I look at is as long as there are incompetent contractors making welds with rebar as filler, my job is safe.

How is that exactly, that you feel safe then?

All I see is potential for getting dragged into dispute/court where to contractor tries to make a case that it's my fault either way. Even if his argument comes down to my detail/instruction/drawings wasn't clear enough, or I saw it and didn't say anything, or I didn't see it and so why didn't I see it, blah blah blah...

I am genuinely curious how you see this.

 

[CANPRO]

I think StrucDesignEIT's comment was in reference to the out-sourcing (correct me if I'm wrong) - you can outsource the design, but when the s$%t hits the fan on the job site, you still need an engineer to put on boots and check it out - you can't outsource that. Advancement in technology makes it easier to outsource and reduces the amount of skill required to produce adequate designs of basic structures, but I think you'll always need the engineer who doesn't mind getting his/her hands dirty and figuring out issues on site. In the interest of staying relevant and valuable in my local market, that is the kind of work I have been steering my career towards.

 

[StrucDesignPE]

CANPRO is correct. As long as there is shoddy work performed on site, there will be a need for competent engineers to provide solutions. Neither a computer program or an engineer 3000 miles away can take the place of an engineer that is physically present to inspect the problems and devise repairs. IMHO, the quality of work that I have seen in my market is becoming worse instead of better. This, somewhat unfortunately maybe, keeps me busy fixing other people's mistakes.