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Continue Working or Pursue a Graduate Degree? 4

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TurbulentSolace

Mechanical
Jun 25, 2013
4
US
Greetings,

Over the past few years, I have scoured through these forums occasionally, and most of you have a ton of useful wisdom to share with everyone. So, I figured that I would ask all of you for your opinion on my recent dilemma - a dilemma which I can't seem to figure out even after about 6 months of thought. I'd really appreciate it if you could provide any insight whatsoever.

About two years ago, I graduated from a respectable college with two BS degrees (mechanical engineering and physics), and I ended up graduating at the top of my class (I did very very well in school). As you can tell, I've always been attracted to the more mathematical and technical side of engineering, and I always saw myself going back to grad school someday - as I've always been into academia both within and outside of school. Well, once graduation approached, I decided that I would take some time off from school. I wanted to work a bit and figure out what area of engineering to focus on; it seemed somewhat silly to dive straight into grad school for something as broad as just mechanical engineering. To make full use of the degree and experience, I thought that I could explore a bit, find a niche which suits me, and then delve further into that subject area's rabbit hole. Thus, I ended up snagging a very good job right before graduating at a very respectable, world-wide company. The pay was very good for a starting position ($66K), and, in general, I was treated very well at that company. However, since I am very very technical, I was instantly bored and displeased with the job. Regardless, I persevered and tried everything to find more engaging work - including sitting down with my supervisor and discussing the situation with him. Unfortunately, I continued to work on equipment quote/scope documents, and I hardly did anything considered "engineering".

Well, since I am in a "career development" type of program at the company, I was able to move to a new position after a year. Unlike the previous position, this was a "real" engineering job, and I was given many responsibilities. However, I still felt very bored with my work (mostly vessel design conforming to ASME BPVC code - including design, drafting, scope/proposal, project management kind of work....basically anything you could see in a typical engineering position). TBH, I've always been more intrigued by deriving equations and theories used for engineering ideas, and the cookbook process found within ASME codes thoroughly bothered me and squashed my curiosity (though, I see how it is somewhat needed). Out of everything I worked on, the chance to write my own program for automatically designing and sizing out equipment was probably the most fulfilling thing I've ever done in industry. Despite this dissatisfaction, I persevered and am currently moving onto another position after another year. Furthermore, I ended up getting quite a generous raise around Christmas time (I now make $74K), and both of my bosses were very satisfied with all of my work.

Well, during that last job, I decided to apply to graduate schools to open up more doors/choices for myself. When I heard back from schools, I was surprised to find out that I had been accepted to a very respected, ivy league school, and they wanted to give me a full ride (free tuition and an annual $28,000 living stipend). However, the caveat is that it would be for a phd program - which is another 4-6 years of schooling. Furthermore, I would have to quit my current job, move to the new area (it's actually closer to my hometown though), and work my ass off again. Obviously, both options (to continue to work or go back to school) are very good, and I am honored to have been offered them. However, I am lost within a cloud of ambivalence; I can't make a decision as to what to do! I have a feeling that I would thoroughly enjoy graduate school, but 4-6 years is a lot of time to invest into schooling. That would be 4-6 years of savings down the drain (at least $120K of savings lost), and 4-6 years of lost work experience. I do have 2 years of experience now, but I feel as though I would be considered entry-level still after graduating again. This makes me fear that I might have trouble getting another job after graduation (shitty job market), and I might start at what I'm making now, which would be very disappointing. Also, I have never done research before, so I don't know if I would be good at or even enjoy it; I only know that I would enjoy participating in classes once again. The whole situation is a HUGE gamble, and I have heard that a phd can sometimes be a detriment to your career.

In terms of making a wise decision, I was thinking that I could continue to work and go to a local, less prestigious school for a master's part-time instead (my employer has a reimbursement program). This way, I would still save money, get more work experience, and further my education. However, it's so hard for me to turn down the honor and respect of a free ride to an ivy league school. Furthermore, I started my 3rd, new position on Monday, and I really don't like it that much already. I haven't done much (and don't wish to jump to conclusions), but it seems like I'll be modeling stuff up in autopipe and doing absolutely no calculations (aside from allowing the program to do stress/dispalcement calcs for me). Working really makes me feel like a mindless zombie, and I'd find it difficult to work and go to school afterwards =/...

Do any of you have any advice? What would you do in my situation? Hopefully I don't sound like a whiney asshole; I am very grateful for these opportunities, but, sometimes, too many open doors can turn into a curse very quickly.

Thanks for any input you guys can provide,
Turbulent Solace
 
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While I'm not the world's greatest fan of higher degrees for engineers, I've got to say that you sound like a natural candidate for an engineering PhD. Incidentally when you've finished, go and design particle accelerators or wind tunnels or radio telscopes or cars or weapons or other things that don't really have codes to be built to.

You keep banging on about money, compared with what you will earn later in life what you get now is just to keep you alive, compound interest may be a powerful investment tool, but by the time you knock inflation back out of it your small savings now probably won't mean a whole lot in 30 years time. A PhD will.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376
 
I have to agree with Greg. If you didn't like pressure vessel design, you're not going to enjoy pipe stress analysis. Go for the PhD.

If I was in your shoes, my biggest worry would be the subject of my thesis.
 
Add me to those that say PhD. The technical side of industrial jobs is usually routine. Do well at your PhD, and you might wind up with a career in acedemia, which sounds like would be more your style.
 
I would go for the PhD as well. I completed a part-time (non-thesis) Masters program at a good university 2 years after completing my undergrad degree. I didn't feel like I gained much throughout the program. There was more application for industry than theory. You should check the part-time program courses if you decide this route.
 
It's funny... I typically steer people away from a PhD unless they intend to go into pure research or have a desire to teach. In this case, though, I think Turbulent would be able to offer some real insight into real-world problems if he continued his education. It's not an easy decision (well, it's easier for me to decide for you since I'm not the one who has to put in the extra hours), but I love learning, and if I was in your position I would strongly consider the PhD position.

Dan - Owner
Footwell%20Animation%20Tiny.gif
 
Wow, I definitely wasn't expecting everyone to unanimously encourage my return; that has definitely surprised me, but thanks for all of the comments. Unfortunately, I can not say that I have made up my mind yet. Whenever I think about this decision, I end up breaking into a huge anxiety attack; it's such a huge change and commitment for me. Since I posted, I have done a lot of research into the PhD process, and there are a lot of sacrifices which come with this decision - especially if you'd like to head into academia. TBH, it completely baffles my mind how underappreciated PhD's are in this country. Not only do you have to work 4-7 years with hardly any pay to obtain the honor, but those interested in academia (which is grossly overpopulated to begin with) are required to do 1-2 years of a postdoc - which pays on average around $30K. You would hope that someone with such knowledge would be treated with honor and respected, but that just simply isn't the case. Poverty and an uncomfortable life (at least monetarily) are pretty much guaranteed for 7-10 years, which is really a shame and sort of scares the shit out of me. TBH, I really do want to focus on the theory, math, and physics driving a lot of engineering, but the opportunity cost just screams, "NO, DON'T DO IT!!!" I really don't want to give up living comfortably for something that isn't guaranteed and would eat up a great chunk of my life; I would be happier and working on something which I like more, but I would also feel as though I'm going nowhere without the potential for something great at the end of the tunnel. At this point, I'm thinking that I should drop the notion of a PhD completely (which is depressing...but seems wise), suck it up, and get a Master's instead. The question now is the following: should I quit my job (a good Fortune 500 company) and move to go to that same prestigious university (University of Pennsylvania...still free tuition), or would I be better off to continue working to save money/gain experience and attend the local Lehigh University part-time for a master's (my company would pay for it)? Any additional thoughts?
 
Postdoc is not that different than residency for doctors. After 8 yrs of schooling, a minimum of 3 yrs of mind-numbing long days with only marginally better salary (~$50k)

TTFN
faq731-376
7ofakss

Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529
 
I went through a similar thing, and I'll talk about my own personal thoughts and feelings regarding this issue. I don't know if any of it will be relevant to you.

My undergrad degrees were in mechanical engineering and computer science. I too graduated at the top of my class. I have been working for about a year and a half now in a big engineering consultancy. Just like you, the work did not interest me at all, and I saw no opportunities elsewhere in the company that really appealed to me. When I was at university the separation between 'weekdays' and 'weekends' did not exist for me. I enjoyed learning, I looked forward to go to uni and I rarely experienced the Sunday afternoon low that I do now.

I never thought about doing a PhD because it looks far too time consuming with little reward at the end. I want to stay in industry but do more interesting work. I've accepted entry into a computational mechanics masters program in Germany which I'm really excited about. Regardless, it's scary, and I still get moments of doubt if I should be doing this or not. But I think that's my nature as I've never really been a risk taker. I feel its the right choice as it will give me the opportunity to develop myself both technically and personally. Late last year I undertook a project in my free time to develop a non-trivial finite element solver from scratch, which was very interesting and lot of fun. It was basically what convinced me to pursue graduate studies in that field. I don't think the prestige of the university really matters all that much, especially in engineering. I would worry more about what it is you would be studying and if you think you would enjoy it or not...
 
One thing that can distinguish yourself from other PhDs is the ability to connect the dots against real-world data and behaviors and the ability to communicate them effectively to non-PhDs. We had a PhD doing servo models and while it appeared that he understood his models, he could never fully explain why he did things nor could he make adjustments to his model to accommodate the actual data in a meaningful way. Whatever you do as a PhD should have real world consequences and applications. The ability to effectively and consistently bridge the chasm between theory and practice would put you in the 1%.

TTFN
faq731-376
7ofakss

Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529
 
My vote is for a master's if you want to stay in industry. Otherwise, plan on being a professor. You can accomplish a lot there aside from teaching.
 
"TBH, it completely baffles my mind how underappreciated PhD's are in this country."

Funny, we have a lot of PHD's at my employer, and based on what I've seen I'm tempted to say PhD's might be over appreciated. While some of the PhD's are so much better than me it's not funny, as many or more fail to impress, and there are good few non PhD's that are better than many of the fairly good PhD's. A couple of the new PhD's fresh from school are frankly not even as good as some of the interns we had that hadn't even completed their bachelors. I'm starting to get the impression that in many cases having a PhD isn't so much a sign of greater intelligence as a sign of greater willingness to hang around university for a good bit longer.

Posting guidelines faq731-376 (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
 
"in many cases having a PhD isn't so much a sign of greater intelligence as a sign of greater willingness to hang around university for a good bit longer"

That should be engraved over the doorway of every laboratory.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376
 
KENAT said:
in many cases having a PhD isn't so much a sign of greater intelligence as a sign of greater willingness to hang around university for a good bit longer.
That has been my experience, also. In my younger days I was led to believe that having a PhD was synonymous with great intelligence and problem-solving abilities. Pshh. For whatever reason, my (potentially skewed) viewpoint has seen a higher-than-average number of PhD holders to be less capable at problem solving, as well as being somewhat more full of themselves (see Dunning-Kruger Effect). A few notable standouts, but very few.

Dan - Owner
Footwell%20Animation%20Tiny.gif
 
The majority of college professors who earned their Ph.D. that I personally know went straight into teaching and never entered the industrial workforce. They have no first-hand knowledge or experience in working for an industrial company as a salaried employee. They never had to deal with the day-to-day issues that routinely come up in the performance of an actual engineering job, and are not familiar with the dysfunctional team based problem-solving issues, the deadline pressures, the resource problems, and the pissed-off customer complaints that we all have had to learn to deal with. Since they can't teach their students what they don't know themselves, their PhD students come into the workforce as green as everybody else who graduated with only a bachelor's degree. But for some reason there seems to be an expectation that this should not be the case. These green PhDs have to learn all of this crap the hard way just like everybody else - by being thrown into the frying pan, and then into the fire. Some learn to walks the ropes with dexterity. Some fail miserably. But the outcome usually has less to do with their academic training and more to do with their inherent capabilities and with their communication skills.

I'd like to think that there are at least a few of us with a PhD who actually know what we are talking about. From the comments that I've read in this discussion so far I get the impression that the people here think the majority of PhDs are worthless academic weenies. That's not always the case folks. I'd like to think that the contributions I've made to these forums over the years serve as a demonstration of that counterpoint.

Maui

 
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