contract and payment question

[SLTA]

ok folks, Merry Christmas!

I have a client for whom I did an investigation and wrote a report on the structural status of a house. He and I talked extensively before meeting about the two levels of investigation I could do - one just telling him general problems and recommendations with no design or calcs or specifics, and a level up where I would design specific fixes for what I found. He insisted that the first report would be enough. At the house, he was also adamant that he and his builder buddy could handle the specifics - he just wanted suggestions from me.

Fast forward to his response to my report, where he's all mad that I didn't give him specific repair instructions and calcs. I reminded him of our conversations about what the report he was buying would get him, and that he signed the contract for the more general report, but he said the report is useless to him and now, he doesn't want to pay me what his signed contract agreed to. He calls it all a misunderstanding and miscommunication and has asked me to charge him "what I feel is fair".

I'm considering two sides - charging him half fee, because I don't like having a grumpy customer, or charging him full fee because we did talk about exactly how much detail would be in the report, and he did sign the contract.

How much would you charge him? Full or half? Keep in mind the overall fee is under $500, that I'm not likely to have him as a client again anyway (my projects tend to be one-shot deals), but that he has a builder friend who recommended me and could potentially pass me work, and that my company is relatively new.

*whew* Thanks!

 

[SLTA]

TygerDawg, it may be chump change to you, but this is the typical fee I work for, doing small residential investigations and reports. I wish I could charge $1500 but I'd get laughed at. My projects are usually one-shot deals anyway.

What's got me so frustrated in this is his insinuations that I'm being unethical. I would never do that - not morally, and besides, I've worked WAY too hard to get where I am to throw it all away.

 

[StoneCold]

If you are really interested in legal action,and I would not encourage it, as legal action just makes money for lawyers and court houses, I would just put a lein against the property that the report was for.
But having been involved in a few legal matters I can tell you they are all money losers. Having a great lawyer can help you sleep at night but in the end you will be poorer. I would just move on.

Regards
StoneCold

 

[TheTick]

There's also his credit rating. Fair target.

 

[rowingengineer]

in our small claims court in aust you don't need a lawyer, is this not the same in the USA.

http://www.nceng.com.au/

"A safe structure will be the one whose weakest link is never overloaded by the greatest force to which the structure is subjected” Petroski 1992

 

[vc66]

Cut your losses. Walk away.

V

 

[MiketheEngineer]

This is why my department NEVER does "preliminary" sketches or "bid" designs.

Either we do it full out or not at all!!! Just gives rise to problems in the future.

Like - "Your original sketch only showed this and I bid it that way". Well we had not completed all the calcs and found some areas that needed beefing up, etc., etc.

If you offer verbal advice - do it for free. If he wants a report - full price. I too learned the hard way.

 

[vc66]

PS This is not the end of the world.

If this is the only time this happens to you... you're lucky.

V

 

[Ron]

slta...keep going. My guess is that most of the suggestions to walk away are coming from individuals who work for larger companies.

The guy you're dealing with knows which buttons to push. He knows that an engineer's license and reputation are paramount...so what does he want to attack?...the things we all fear will hurt our careers the most.

Don't fold. Take him to small claims court. Tell him in no uncertain terms that if he says anything to anyone in an attempt to impune your reputation that he will next hear from your attorney (if you don't have one engaged, just don't let him know).

File a lien on his property for the services you provided. In NC you have the right as a Design Professional to file such a lien on real property. See North Carolina statute, Gen. Stat. §44A-12.

Good luck.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

I disagree w/Ron. If it's only $500 - walk away and REMEMBER his name.

By the time you file the paperwork and spend a day in court - you have better things to do. If it's $5,0000 - that's another story - file against him.

But remember one thing - you might win in small claims court - you probably will. But getting paid is another thing. Sure, the court says pay this guy (you) but they DO NOT enforce it. It is up to you to collect and that can be very hard and frustrating.

Yeah- I won once - still never got paid!!!

 

[cvg]

never reduce your fee
for jobs this small, demand a retainer up front.
turn the bill over to collection agency and forget about it.

 

[berkshire]

Sita,
I can attest to what Ron just said, had the same thing happen as I mentioned before.

"" But remember one thing - you might win in small claims court - you probably will. But getting paid is another thing. Sure, the court says pay this guy (you) but they DO NOT enforce it. It is up to you to collect and that can be very hard and frustrating.

Yeah- I won once - still never got paid!!!""

There appears to be a particular type of low life,( I will not justify the word businessman on these bottom feeders.) who seems to prey on people just starting up in business, or who are struggling financially. They dangle what seems to be a good deal for a job, then when it comes time to pay, they either try to weaselword their way out, or nitpick the work to avoid paying.
The other type to watch out for, is the guy who pays cash on the barrelhead and indicates money is no problem, until credit is established. Then takes as much work as possible before dissapearing without paying.
B.E.


The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor

 

[miningman]

All fair comment but dont let possible doubts about being paid after winning in small claims court affect your decision on how to proceed. A good few years ago I had cause to sue a previous employer in small claims court, won, met major resistance to getting my cash, got dragged back into court on appeal, won again, thought about having the sherriff sieze the company plane but decided not to proceed with that but was having a hell of an amusing time with all of this ( without using a lawyer).

Then I get a formal note from the court that essentially said "Party xyz has siezed the office furniture of your ex employer in order to enforce a judgement he has against your ex employer. Ex employer has paid off this judgement. o you wish this siezure to be maintained on your behalf.?? My official response was " Damn Right I do"

I guess its difficult to carry on business with a legal notice affixed to the front door of your business stating " All office furniture within this office has been siezed by the sherriff for non payment of a legal judgement. Anyone removing this furniture or this notice is in contempt of court"

I got my money about 10 days later. I had a lot of fun throughout the entire process and learnt an awefull lot that will be usefull the next time I'm owed money

 

[beej67]

I do the same sorts of work on occasion for homeowners, except for drainage instead of structures, and I will do the same thing you did- quote them an easy fee and a detailed fee. I always write all of the different contract alternates into the letter contract, though, so I don't end up in a situation like you're in. I can always point back at the fee thresholds in the letter.

Charge him what you said you'd charge him and be more clear in your next letter contract.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[beej67]

Oh, the other thing I do with homeowners is I expect to be paid the day of the site visit, or I won't go at all.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[brandonbw]

We also mainly do grading/drainage plans and will do a lot for free. But as soon as someone signs a contract we are doing one of two things. Working without the upfront retainer which most likely we will get paid eventually.

Or we don't start the job before getting money. As you are new, you will slowly see people out there have a reputation for continuing to have projects without paying properly and because so many people are struggling other little companies will take the work on.

Like I tell everyone, we are not busy enough, but we are busy enough to still turn jobs away right now.

Have you asked the client why they signed the contract if they weren't intending to pay upon the agreed work?

B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil and Structural Engineering

http://bwengr.com

 

[MacGyverS2000]

This is resolved, brandon... I doubt Linnea will be talking to this client again anytime soon...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com