Controlled lubrication to atomize or not to atomize?

[Skiroy]

Hey guys I am working on a auto lube spray system for a pipe bender. I need a very controlled spray like that of a one sec squirt of a can of spray paint with a flat spray pattern with a 45-90 degree angle on the width. This is because in order for the nozzle to be out of the way of moving parts but, close enough to not make a mess, the nozzle must be about 6" above the part to be lubricated.

The part to be lubricated is a 1" diameter by 6" long mandrel rod that acts as a guide for the copper tubing as it slides inside the tubing while bending. The hardest part to this project is finding the correct spray nozzle to work within this specific pattern and is not huge and cumbersome.

So my question to you math geniuses out there, is if there is a formula to figure the correct cfm needed for this coverage or if you know the cfm of what a can of flat patterned spray paint is?I can control the cfm via the PSI I assume but the other question is if I should go with a atomizing system which mixes air and the oil(which is a very low viscosity oil called OAK oil) or to just go with a system that pushes only oil through the nozzle via air pressure in the oil supply tank?

Atomizing systems,at least the one we have here, seem a little harder to control a specific pattern,oil volume and are overall more messy. But the ones we have are not a specific pattern. They are just the generic nozzles on the TRICO Spray Master system like this one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Trico-30458...402?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e69e4e50a

I know it seems like a easy thing made complicated but I have attempted to contact several nozzle manufacturers and none of which can seem to tell me if I will be able to control it as I described above. Control is critical because if it makes a big mess than this project will be a flop and I have convinced my boss to spend money on a system that will be impractical.

Thankx.



The last question is

 

[MikeHalloran]

Don't worry about the mess; that's the least of your problems.

Atomized oil is a fire hazard.
That's not the worst of your problems.

It's also a breathing hazard.
It works something wonderful for cooling cutting tools, but OSHA pretty much shut down the technology years ago.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Skiroy]

Hey Pembroke Pines Fl. I grew up eberywhere in Broward. The military landed me and my wife in Northern Fl. We want to move further south soon. Let me ask you,what do you do there? Are there any industrial automation/maintenance opportunities down there?

Anyways back on topic. So an unenclosed atomized system is no good got it. But I can still do this with a non atomized spray nozzle right?

 

[MikeHalloran]

I used to be a mechanical engineer for Coulter Electronics, which has shrunken considerably, hence the past tense. There's still some manufacturing going on in Hialeah, but the engineer market is way beyond saturated.

If I get another job, I'm between jobs. If not, I'm retired.

Don't take my word for anything.
Do read up on spray systems and OSHA.
Notice particularly the huge variety of water based coolants offered for sale.






Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Skiroy]

Well this app is not for cooling it is to keep the copper tubing gliding smoothly over the rod while bending and Oak Oil is the only option.

Is the liquid delivery method in spray paint and windex both considered atomizing? Does it combine air/liquid or just use air pressure to push the liquid through the nozzle?

Finally,Does anyone know of any nozzles which has 2-3 stream tips that would be the size of a 1/8 npt fitting and spray 2-3 streams of Oak Oil(viscosity of water and evaporates) in a /|\ or /\ pattern?

 

[MikeHalloran]

Where would I buy this "Oak Oil"?
I cannot seem to find a specification or a supplier.

I searched for "mandrel lubrication" with and without the quotes and got a number of products other than Oak Oil, and quite a few application systems that claim to just bolt onto your bender.
Check that you're not reinventing a wheel.

Don't quote _me_, but I think that regulatory authorities don't make a particular distinction about whether compressed air or compressed gas is involved in atomizing liquids, but they do care about the droplet size.

Have you tried foaming the Oak Oil? I have no idea what OSHA might say about it, but I've had good results foaming Marvel Mystery Oil using a Dial (hand) Soap Foam dispenser. (Buy two; use the soap in the first one, then refill it from the second. What remains is a air/liquid pump that hasn't ever had soap in anything but the dip tube.)



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Skiroy]

http://www.metalloidcorp.com/finworks.php

I guess Oak Oil in a nickname because they use it on Burroak tooling alot.

But if you could post the link of the bolt on system you would be my hero. I tried to find one. The problem is it has to be smart enough to know when to spray. That means automation of some sort. But if there is a sytem that can simplify even part of it I am more than greatfull to know about it.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Try searching for
"mandrel lubrication" "<your bender's make and model>"



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Skiroy]

Thankx but those systems are for weepers through the mandrel rods. That was my original intention but that requires the mandrel rods to be hollow. Unfortunately because we run much smaller tubing the mandrel rods can not be hollow or they would break too easy. We already have tips breaking with them being solid. Its not the rod itself. It is the thread portion that screws into the mandrel.

So I have to go with a spray system but I am looking into a tip that would spray 2-3 seperate stream so we dont get into oil mist situation.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Given what I assume are low flows, you could use a solid mandrel rod and gundrill a small hole through it for the lube.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Skiroy]

http://sureshotsprayer.com/NozzleExtensions.html

#301 is sprays the stream I need but its 1/8 npt I need something the size of an air brush tip.

Any ideas? I wonder if its possible to get a stream with a air brush tip?

 

[DubMac]

You may have already done it, but I would go to an Industrial/Commercial Painters (not residential) supply store. Not to their catalogs, or websites, but to the actual store. Those old pros have the real world experience & know more about spray patterns and nozzles than most anyone. Hint: talk to an old balding guy; for some reason they seem to know more than people with lots of hair.

 

[Skiroy]

Awesome idea.

 

[Skiroy]

Hey I was messing with a prototype last night when I discovered something. I was going to have the nozzle spray by opening the air valve that pressurizes the Lube tank. But I saw that even when you turn the air pressure off the tank remains pressurized still squirting oil so I have to put a liquid valve on the oil supply tube to the nozzle instead. Correct me if I am wrong at any point.

A problem I saw was he nozzle continued to leak after there was no pressure. This would be a problem if the nozzle leaked in between sprays because it would make a mess as the nozzle will be facing down.


But my question for you guys is:

What can I do to prevent this? Or is this even an issue once the valve is on the liquid side? Im thinking like when you hold your finger on a liquid filled strawl in the vertical position,how no liquid will escape.

 

[Skiroy]

Hmm. even with the valve on the liquid side the stream still slowly pees after the valve cuts off. What the trick to get it to squirt and stop immediately and not leak oil after?

 

[MikeHalloran]

You need a better valve.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Skiroy]

Okay. I was using a hand ball valve just to experiment with. Are you suggesting it needs to be faster or that there is leakage? What is one you can recommend for this application for light viscosity(almost water like) oil,using 1/8-1/4" supply lines,2-5 PSI and has a 24VDC coil? I can find one with all the requirements just curious as to what your opinion is for this specific app.

 

[DubMac]

Would you not consider an airless system??

What would be wrong with a positive displacement pump pushing the oil through a properly sized spray tip??

Do you need the air for some reason??

Go talk to an old, balding commercial paint equipment guy.