Cooling Water Treatment - VRTX System

[barilko]

Hi,

Have any of you had any experiences good or bad with Chesterton's Vrtx water treatment system? Particularly in a chemical/petroleum processing environment? The system makes a number of claims and I would like to hear some user feedback.

Thanks
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http://www.vrtx-technologies.com/

Through kinetic energy and mechanical shear, the VRTX Technologies system disrupts the physical composition of the water matrix.

The system breaks the tetrahedral bonds and disrupts the equilibrium of soluble calcium bicarbonate, Ca(HCO3)2, and insoluble calcium carbonate, CaCO3, and releases carbon dioxide.

 

[smile1]

barilko,
No experience with the name you mention. The description of the technique is similar to other "magic" treatment systems. Chemically, releasing CO2 from bicarbonate is performed in both WAC and HLS systems, which results in the production of -OH. In the WAC the -OH combines with the H+ which was exchanged for the Ca+. In the HLS the -OH combines with additional bicarbonate to form insoluble CaCO3 which is removed as a sludge. You can see then that getting the temporary hardness to release its CO2 without either raising the pH or the benefit of an outlet for the -OH is not possible.

Where did you find this vender? Is there any information you can share with me?

 

[DeltaCascade]

This has been discussed to death in other threads over the years.
If you go the route of babble-babble testimonials and not of science, why not find a perpetual motion machine vendor ... heck, the profit potential is greater
Good luck

 

[barilko]

Smile1,
I heard about this at a petroluem show and my first and probably correct assumption is "magic" and "babble-babble of testimonial".

The vendor claims to have installations with different beverage companies in their bottling lines (Pepsi). Also installations in aluminum making facilities of Alcoa. Are these not reputable companies that would use science in their product evaluations?

For that matter, Chesterton seems to have a lot of other businesses.... why would they risk reputation by selling a dud?

DeltaCascade
My apologies if this has been "discussed to death", but I'm unfamiliar with water chemistry and I couldn't find any reference here on the subject.

Can you please explain why the science is unsound?

 

[smile1]

barilko

I looked at the site. I agree, Chesterton is a good company, and it would be hard to believe that they would compromise that reputation on a system that did not work.

I reviewed their papers, and the economics. There is not a lot of information there, but here is my guess. They discuss removing the CO2 via vacuum. That is possible, especially with an impeller type P/V device. CO2, -HCO3, and CO3-2 are all in equilibrium at a selected pH, so there is a quantity of CO2 available for removal. For example, with 200 ppm alkalinity, there is about 40 ppm CO2 at a pH of 7. Once that CO2 is removed, however, pH elevation occurs. That would lead to carbonate precipitation. They also discuss this particulate removal, presumably with centrifuge or membrane, and that I believe is the key. If one were to remove the CO2, wait for an equlibrium to be established, remove the particulate caCO3 by membrane or centifuge, and then continue to remove the CO2, repeating the above, it may be possible.

What one gets, in summary, is a system that uses two filtration membranes, one for CO2 removal, likely to foul quickly with carbonate and silicate due to the localized pH elevation, and an ultrafiltration membrane to remove the CaCO3, which will need cleaning. The system should work, but I can envision high maintenance, high energy costs, and high capital costs. Ask about longer term tests, say over a year, to get a handle on the costs of membrane replacement and cleaning. Also look at labor required to keep the system operating. It is likely similar to RO systems.

As an alternative, I have installed a number of modified weak acid systems that work better for this purpose at a lower capital cost and lower operating cost. They effectively produce zero alkalinity water with an equivilent reduction in Calcium. This in my opinion is the best route to take.

JMHO.

Keith