Copied CD's as Shop Drawings 3

[ml13]

Do you allow copies of your Construction Drawings to be submitted as shop drawings, from a steel fabricator, for example? Why or why not?

Thanks in advance.

Matt

 

[ChipB]

As long as they release you from dimensional correctness, & as erection drawings only, all the time.

They might as well benefit from your labors as well. I actually will give them my cad files. Again, as long as release you from dimensional correctness.

 

[TFL]

i like it whe they at least ask before hand. i have seen many sets were they just show up that way.

 

[denoid]

We usually make them sign a release agreement absolving us of dimensional correctness, inconsistancies between bid documents and addendum items, etc. We also remove our title block from the drawings. In cases where there are numerous sheets to the structural set, we sometimes ask (but don't always get) a small "per drawing" fee, such as $50 to $100 per sheet, depending on circumstances.

 

[ml13]

denoid:
If they are saving X dollars in not having to draft the thing, why not ask for their drafting fees? Short of that, shouldn't the owner be credited that fee (assuming it was in the bid)?

 

[denoid]

ml13:

By asking for a small fee, we are usually just trying to recoup some fees for our time for writing our short contractual agreement, cleaning up the drawings, zipping them up, e-mailing, etc. - We aren't really trying to charge them drafting time. After all, they are a sub-contractor, who we usually like to stay on relatively good terms with for jobsite relations, future projects, etc.

 

[rrmiv]

In my view, the shop drawing process is a beneficial “extra set of eyes” which reflects the fabricator’s understanding of the intent of the contract documents and the means and methods of fabrication. This is important to the owner, the design team, and the general contractor because such submittals are the work of the fabricator and as such they take responsibility for the fabrication, means and methods. In addition there is a greater chance that errors or fabrication conflicts will be discovered by the design team and the general contractor. If the fabricator merely copies the details on the documents and does not perform an independent check, are they providing the service that is intended? I say no.

 

[denoid]

rrmiv raises an excellent point. I much prefer that the subcontractor does his own independent set of plans/details. But, as the Rolling Stones once said, "you can't always get what you want".

 

[JAE]

rrmiv's point is good - but perhaps there is a middle ground - shop drawings involve both erection (plan-type) drawings and specific piece drawings.

The latter must be created from scratch and this is where the vast majority of "errors" are found and questions asked. The construction document plans are simply a map of where the pieces go so we usually allow them to copy our plans.

We do include a note on our plans:

THE STRUCTURAL DRAWINGS ARE NOT INTENDED FOR USE AS SHOP ERECTION DRAWINGS. REPRODUCTION OF THESE DRAWINGS IN LIEU OF PREPARATION OF SHOP ERECTION DRAWINGS SIGNIFIES THE USERS' ACCEPTANCE THAT ALL INFORMATION SHOWN IS CORRECT AND APPROPRIATE FOR SHOP DRAWINGS AND THAT THE USER WILL BE FULLY RESPONSIBLE FOR EXPENSES THAT MAY OCCUR FROM SAID ACCEPTANCE

 

[Lutfi]

I do not allow my design drawings to be copied and used as shop submittals. Shop drawings, in my opinion, act as last chance for the detailer/engineer to catch a mistake and or rectify an error! If the design plans are used for shop drawings, then the error may not be caught.

I can tell you many times that CAD and new technology got us in trouble. A case in point, site plans were plotted with perfect boundaries and bearings. The plans were signed and sealed. The contractor insisted on using the CAD file so his surveyor with GPS can stake out the site.

Guess what! The CAD file was mistakenly rotated few seconds and thing did not fit! Fortunately, the problem was rectified. Now had not the surveyor used the legal singed and sealed hard copies, no fuss nor would delays have taken place.

I have many other problems with steel framing and dimensional conflicts to name... But I will spare every one.