Copper Projectile - Raw Material 1

[BrittToolEngineer]

Greetings,

I am just reaching out to anyone who may have knowledge of the best supplier for raw material rod in pure copper. I need the best pricing. Does anyone have experience in this area? We are going to make projectiles for bullets.

Thanks,

Brent

 

[AidanMc]

Preface: I have nothing constructive to add to your request. Out of curiosity though, what caliber are you looking at? I've only ever heard of machined copper being used for fairly large sized, high precision rounds.

Aidan McAllister
Metallurgical Engineer

 

[BrittToolEngineer]

There is a new company started with a large customer base requesting a unique bullet with unique features for this bullet. Mostly, it is unique geometry that sets it apart, but another request is that it be pure copper. The entire projectile will be machined. I am looking at quoting .375 and .500 diameters for 9 mm through 45 cal. I am hunting for a good raw material resource. Currently getting quotes from many, but did not think it would hurt to toss a note out here and see if anyone deals with copper rounds.

Thanks,

Brent

 

[ornerynorsk]

Why don't you check out impact extruders? They can source the material better than you, most likely, and save a bunch of time in machining. If you've got some fair volume, they will be pretty cheap.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[TheTick]

What d they mean by "pure" copper? Nothing is 100% pure. Do they specify a grade?

I would also question the rationale behind the "pure" spec. Surely there is an alloy with more suitable mechanical properties.

 

[BrittToolEngineer]

TheTick - Pure copper meaning C11000, which is 99.9% copper. This is a grade currently in use for certain hunting, long range, bullet splits to 4 paths for a better kill %. There are also self-defense and police tactical bullets that will be produced from these as well, most all with the 4 path once bullet engages its target.

Ornerynorsk, I will check impact extruders out. Thanks for the info.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Seems like the point of a hollow-point... shredding head. Been around longer than I have, and no need for "pure" copper...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[MikeHalloran]

Copper.org only lists about a bazillion copper alloys, most of which are easier to machine than pure-ish copper, and some of which are readily available in bar stock of the size you want.
Some research there, and discussion with your metal suppliers, should help you propose a few alloys that will be easier to deal with for you, and may better meet your customer's actual requirements, which seem a little fuzzy, so to speak.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Dirtjumpordie]

Here is a high purity copper supplier. What is the theory behind needing 100% pure copper as opposed to 99.9% or 99.99% pure copper?

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...m=a2700.7724838.2017115.60.5c36682346jF1v&s=p

You said you'd like to "make projectiles for bullets". I'd like to point out that bullets ARE projectiles. They are the projectile component of a fixed ammunition cartridge.

 

[chicopee]

"...Pure copper meaning C11000, which is 99.9% copper..." sounds like a waste of "pure" copper for the intended purposes. All bullets that I have bought over the years for reloading purpose were copper clad.

 

[ornerynorsk]

Chicopee, solid copper bullets are a thing. It's the terminal performance that greatly differentiates them from other materials.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[ProEpro]

For small orders Mcmaster has what you need.

For larger orders these guys have everything you might want.

http://www.tkmna.com/tkmna/TKMNADivisions/CopperandBrassSales/index.html

https://www.ryerson.com/catalog/106

 

[IRstuff]

Probably the same sorts of customers that want gold-plated audio jacks

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[Dirtjumpordie]

Solid copper projectiles are used for a number of reasons.
-They are easier to make than a copper-jacketed lead-core bullet. Less overhead required.
-The solid copper projectiles expand with more consistency than lead-core bullets that have copper jackets. (allowing design features that would potentially hinder a lead-core copper-jacket bullet)
-They don't fragment as badly when impacting bone or intermediate materials like denim.
-Some jurisdictions restrict the use of lead-projectiles

Solid copper projectiles have a lower cross-sectional density, so a bullet for a given caliber will be longer than if it were lead-core and equal in mass. This allows a shape that has more gradual curves and better ballistic coefficient without sacrificing velocity. It also allows for a projectile that deforms to a larger cross-sectional area when it impacts the target. Again, all without sacrificing velocity.

 

[byrdj]

IF, you are going to make 0.224", I would like a few round nose for a miniature "dangerous game Kynoch" 223 load for my Ruger African

 

[SwinnyGG]

Solid copper projectiles are used for a number of reasons.

I don't think anyone is questioning solid vs. jacketed projectiles.. the question is why use pure copper vs. an alloy that would be cheaper to source and easier to machine with no performance cost.

 

[ornerynorsk]

Shooters have also been known to use bronze, bismuth, brass, tin, and yes, even the proverbial silver bullets. It's no different than any other area of interest. Experimentation with different materials to observe their performance and outcome. The question is not why, it's "why not".

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Pure copper is _extremely_ ductile, which is partly why it's difficult to machine.

But the intent seems to be to make frangible bullets, by a process that is not revealed nor apparent.

Last time I understood the subject, frangible bullets were made by a compaction process, not by subtractive machining. ... and ATF, etc., were trying hard to control the supply chain.

Once again, there are a few things I don't understand.





Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[ornerynorsk]

Yes, frangibles generally do start off with powder/granular feedstock and are compacted to some degree of incomplete cohesion. They are more for airborne security and sensitive area applications than what a solid would be appropriate for. I think the OP is going after maximum wound channel and controlled distortion, not disintegration.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Distortion, I get.
Splitting into four sub-projectiles, I don't get, not in the requested alloy.
The word 'split' suggests something like saw-cutting the bullet, which would be a LOT easier with something like 330 brass.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA