Cover up a problem or solve it? Lie or be honest?Should i change? 2

[Cutiee]

Hey all

Thanks you very much for answering my other questions, since I’m really inexperienced, here I got more questions…I will try to make this short and explain in details…

(my project)2 equipments I bought are missing some certificates because vendor made mistakes, but vendor insisted that they couldn’t supply the certs again, but they would supply 2 brand new equipments with all certs free of charge, so we accepted their offer.

At that stage only me, my manager and project manager knew about this situation. They didn’t tell me not to tell anyone about it, and I didn’t think it was a big deal even if I did tell anyone, because it’s simply the truth.

Anyway QA department was looking for those certs, they were asking me, so I told them what happened. Then they reminded me if the new certs don’t tie up with old equipments, equipments have to be replaced. And of course, taking the original equipments off and re-fit&test the new ones are going to incur extra cost. But if the new certs don’t have any numbers on it, of course we can just use them without replacing the equipments, that all sounds reasonable to me.

But after I told my manager about my conversation with QA department, he told me off. He said I was supposed to keep this quiet, I should have lied to QA, it’s only then I realised that his plan was to not replace the equipments even if the certs don’t tie up, just to save us money…

Is there an un-written rule or something? If we can cover up a problem, and save money for the company, we should not try to spend money solve the problem but cover it up, and keep everyone in the dark? And be dishonest?

...

Cuttie

 

[PeterKsiazek]

It sounds like the manager was just going to take the certifcations and not actually replace the equipment.

 

[KENAT]

I think that's the problem. The supplier gave new equipement on the basis that it would be swapped out with the original equipment.

Cutties boss doesn't want the hassle of swapping out the equipment, so is hushing up.

Cuttie mentions in their second post that it's a contractural requirement to have those certs, so backing up this line of action is potentially fraudulent. I wouldn't support this, but at the same time in this climate wouldn't be keen to risk losing my job so unless there's a safety issue I might leave it up to my boss and QA to sort out between themselves.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[TheTick]

My lament for you is that, like many of us, you are now branded by your boss. Your boss is in the "liar's club". He will instinctively ally himself with those in the same club. You are not in that club, and now he knows it.

The irony is that he will not trust you, because you are trustworthy. This may limit how far upward you can move when under someone like this. Still, I encourage you to maintain your integrity. People of good character are sweet flowers in a world overrun by noxious weeds.

 

[Debaser]

Ah I see.

I missed the fact the original uncertified equipment had already been installed and would need to be removed from its application.

Cheers,

 

[BJC]

Since this form is about how to improve your self....
The question is really an ethical one. Somebody spent your companys money and didn't get what they paid for ( some equipment and accompanying Certs). You didn't get the certs. If you ordered a dozen pumps and didn't get two, would you say "thats ok, ten will do. You paid for 12 so get them. Certs are not a a marginal thing. Five or ten years from now something big time fails and causes a fire with millions in damage. Will they say your equipment caused the fire? Can you say "No, I have the certification tht the equipment was certified to Standard XYZ. If you think this doesn't happen visit the real world. Teh best example of this is the AI at apower plant project. AIs work for insurance companies. IF they want certs you better have them or you don't go into start-up.

 

[PeterStock]

Yes Cutties boss would be a bit wary of her. Get the resume up to date and start looking.

Peter Stockhausen
Senior Design Analyst (Checker)
Infotech Aerospace Services

 

[KENAT]

The OP already is looking, this is at least strike 2 for the boss if I recall the previous salary/raise issue correctly.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[Cutiee]

Our installation contractor is my boss’ mate, today he gave me a price break down for my project, one item I didn’t quite understand, so I asked him to explain, after he left, my boss said “you should trust him”, I said “I do”, then my boss said “then why were you questioning him!?” so I said “I just want to be clear of what I’m paying for”, I think my boss is already starting to give me hard time =/

Thanks for the answers, I’m still waiting on the new items and certs, I need to see before I decide what to do (if my manager doesn’t stop me).

To make things more clear, those certs are calibration certs, my understanding is that: those certs proves those equipments have been calibrated, and sometimes certs have serial numbers on them for traceability, since vendor lost the certs for the items they have already sent to us, they couldn’t re-calibrate and send us replacement certs, thus the new equipments and new certs.

xx

Cuttie

 

[KENAT]

Slightly off topic work around, can you re-calibrate at your site somehow?

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[Cutiee]

as far as I know, we can't. :s x

Cuttie

 

[PeterStock]

Could the vender do a calibration at your site? I would think so as the equiptment should be recalibrated from time to time.

Peter Stockhausen
Senior Design Analyst (Checker)
Infotech Aerospace Services

 

[kawh1]

The OP's superiors are either dumber than a box of rocks or are up to something shady. If the vendors lose the certificate, the equipment is no longer useful to the company. No certificate means a liability to the company (a piece of paper goes very far in litigation).

If they put that stipulation on the equipment invoice, contract, or if that is a standard business practice, then it wouldn't be a problem in recovering their money in court should it go that far. At least that's how it works in the U.S.

They should have insisted the vendor pay to set everything right, without having the OP's workplace foot the bill. That might involve going to court, but that's part of business.

Passing the vendor's liability (you lose the certificate, you pay up to make everything right) onto themselves and then lying about it is beyond asinine. To the OP, your boss wants you to tell a lie and then probably further manipulate you. You did a good job in not letting that happen. I wonder why your boss doesn't tell the QA department to keep quiet. Your reputation and career goes well beyond your current workplace.

 

[Cutiee]

He wishes he had the power to tell QA what to do…

When I told him I would replace those equipments if necessary, he questioned me ‘who is going to pay for extra cost?!’ I said vendor, he said they wouldn’t. I did ask him why vendor wouldn’t pay, he didn’t answer, just shaked his head, shrugged and was almost like saying ‘girl, you messed it up’, but I think I did the right thing…

Ever since I started working, I was told to be ‘nice’ to certain vendors (the vendor mentioned in the post is one of them), because they would ‘take me out’; ‘treat me a trip’ etc, but I never liked the idea, if I want to go out or go on a trip, I can pay for myself. And I have always been ordering from vendors that offer best price/delivery/quality, not necessarily the managers’ favourite vendors.

xx

Cutie

 

[ScottyUK]

Cutie,

Don't worry about it. You did the right thing. Possibly you've made life more awkward for your boss, because now he will have to do things properly instead of cheating the QA system but that's his problem. If he gave a toss about doing things properly then the question wouldn't have arisen in the first place.

Isn't it time you got out of there?


----------------------------------

If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[PeterStock]

"I was told to be 'nice' to certain vendors (the vendor mentioned in the post is one of them), because they would 'take me out'; 'treat me a trip' etc,". This answers a question I had be thinking of. Your boss has put the vendors and or his interest over that of your company. Time to CYA, document everything, update the resume and run as soon as you can.

Peter Stockhausen
Senior Design Analyst (Checker)
Infotech Aerospace Services

 

[jeebusmn]

I would agree. Document everything and try to find another position in the company or elswhere. I am afraid you'll take some of the blame even though you were just following your superior when the shit hits the fan.

 

[bpattengale]

Cutiee,
"Ever since I started working, I was told to be 'nice' to certain vendors (the vendor mentioned in the post is one of them), because they would 'take me out'; 'treat me a trip' etc,..."

That is a kickback, and you're right in selecting the vendors that offer the best product for the job. Kickbacks are unethical and often times illegal.

 

[bpattengale]

Just a note for clarification, I checked the ND Boards rules for the exact wording on ethical behavior and this is what it states:
"The registrant will not accept compensation, finacial or otherwise, from moe than one intersted party for the same service. The registrant:...

3. Shall not solicit or accept gratuities, gifts, travel, loding, loans, entertainment, or oter favors, directly or indirectly, from contractors, their agents, or other third parties dealing with a client or employer in connection with work for which the registrant is responsible, which can be determined to be an effor to improperly influence the registrant's professional judgment. Minor expenditures such as advertising trinks, novelties, and meals are excluded. Neither shall a registrant make any such improper offer."

If your boss is liscensed and is doing this, he should be reported to your state board of registration. Secondly, if you're aware of this you're ethically and legally bound to report it to the board or you too could be sanctioned by the board.

 

[KENAT]

bpattengale, Cuttie is in the UK as I recal not US so the licensing set up isn't quite the same.

Cuttie, I know it's not the best time to be looking but it really sounds like you're on a losing streak where you are so I'd do all you can to find something else.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[rhodie]

Don't lie. ever.

Jobs come and go, but your integrity is always with you, and can keep you up at night if it has been lost.