CPVC Piping Limitations 9

[NJ1]

I am trying to sub this new installation to a sprinkler contractor but something caught my attention.
The contractor stated that CPVC piping may be used in lieu of black pipe where applicable.

The job in questions is an existing restaurant/bar in Elizabeth, NJ.
In 18 years I have never seen such thing. Can some one explain if possible?

 

[MGXFP]

CPVC can be used in light hazard applications when protected and residential I believe exposed. I've seen it used in restaurant seating areas (light hazard) and in some instances exposed in ordinary hazard areas equal to or less than 400 sq. ft..

I've used CPVC in existing restaurants. When listed for such use its the best since our guys are often in there after hours (8-11PM, when the restaurant closes) and one can cut it to fit.

Check the listing for blazemaster :

http://www.lubrizol.com/BuildingSolutions/BlazeMasterFireSprinklerSystems.html

 

[chevy4x4trucks]

CPVC can also be installed exposed in light hazard areas when they meet the listings which have certain requirements for sprinkler spacing, deflector distance, and ceiling construction.

 

[sspeare]

From the 2002 edition of NFPA 13:

6.3.6.1 - Table 6.3.6.1 lists CPVC (i.e. Blazemaster).

Blazemaster is listed for "Light Hazard" per NewtonFP's post above.

NFPA 13 (2002) Blazemaster is permitted as follows:
6.3.6.2 "Pipe ... listed for light hazard occupancies shal be permitted .... in ordinary hazard rooms of otherwise light hazard occupancies where the room does not exceed 400 square feet."

Again, I'm quoting the 2002 edition, so maybe I'm out of date.

 

[pipesnpumps]

I'm sure an expert witness for the state of New Jersey can figure this one out, using the excellent advice posted above.

 

[firepe]

pipesnpumps,

I want to know why an expert opinion advisor for the State of NJ and NICET Level 3 ITM who wants to stamp drawings did not already know this.

 

[cdafd]

"""""I am trying to sub this new installation to a sprinkler contractor but something caught my attention. The contractor stated that CPVC piping may be used in lieu of black pipe where applicable""""""""


does this sound more like a design spec, as in where you can use a certain material if allowed??? an either or situation

 

[NJ1]

I am not an expert opinion on installations that is why I need some advice from other professionals in the business. Fortunately the comment here posted by Ms. pipesnpumps could be really appreciated by another A_ _ H_ _ E like her.

Anyways, can we all proceed with the conversation. I have never seen anyone using CPVC in a existing restaurant in all my years of experience.
Typically is used in new residential or existing residential. Very little commercial applications I seen.
I guess I should bid on the job as long as the town allows CPVC to be used.

Thanks everyone else.

 

[TravisMack]

Check the listing and datasheets for CPVC piping. I have never seen it state that it is only for new construction. We have done retrofits in office high rise buildings using CPVC. No real problem with it.

If the restaurant is wood construction, make sure you look closely at the requirements to use only specially listed sprinklers with CPVC exposed in combustible concealed spaces.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[NJ1]

Yeah that makes lots of sense. I am just going tostart by asking the AHJ.
For example Jersey City does not allow cpvc piping. If you get approved you are lucky.

 

[FFP1]

OR...........you could always research the applicable NFPA documents and read the CPVC pipe manufacturer's installation guidelines.

I am NOT calling out NJ1 with this post (please do not get defensive); I hope everyone in our industry looks in the mirror as they read my words. It just seems like a huge majority of the people in our industry try to complete the various job tasks without research. How do people think the knowledgeable people in our industry gained the knowledge? Time and effort; many many late night hours reading and studying pertinent documents!

CPVC is one of the best examples......we all see systems which have been installed incorrectly, but the use of CPVC is off the charts when you compare what is installed verses the CPVC pipe manufacturer's installation guidelines. NFPA clearly states that CPVC components SHALL be installed in accordance with the CPVC pipe manufacturer's installation guidelines, but WAY too many companies have employees who are either unaware or blatantly ignore the manufacturer's installation guidelines.

I am not anti-CPVC (as some blog participants have implied or concluded)........as long as it is installed properly!

 

[NJ1]

That is what I am trying to achieve. I have installed CPVC many times in my career but I have never install, design, etc. anything like this. I just looked at the job yesterday and boy let me tell you. The attic alone will be very difficult with steel pipe. I am hoping to get an easier solution approved by the AHJ.

 

[cdafd]

Sounds like a mix of steel and cvpc system if the cvpc is allowed per listing