Cranfield University (UK) says engineers in short supply... 19

[DaveG16]

Found this interesting in light of the seeming lack of engineering jobs in the United States...

According to a press release from the University of Cranfield School of Management, there soon will not be enough engineers in the UK:


"Skill deficit puts pressure on manufacturing
Recruitment expectations among UK manufacturers have reached an all-time high, but lack of engineers and production managers could thwart their expansion plans, according to the latest figures from the Recruitment Confidence Index.
Recruitment activity in manufacturing has been rising steadily since spring 2003. Half of the manufacturing organisations surveyed predict an increase in recruitment activity over the next six months compared to only 38% three months ago. Fifty percent of manufacturers are also predicting a rise in workforce numbers (compared to only 36% in Autumn 2003).

However, the engineers, production and sales managers they will need to drive their expansion plans, are likely to be in short supply. Well over half of respondents , 58%, predict that they will have problems recruiting engineers, 42% are expecting trouble recruiting production managers and 43% say they will find it hard to recruit enough sales professionals.

Commenting on the RCI findings, Professor Shaun Tyson of Cranfield School of Management said: "The perceived lack of glamour and career opportunities in UK manufacturing have made it hard for employers to woo graduates to manufacturing jobs. They will have to work hard if they are to attract and retain the engineers and production managers they need to drive any expansion."

Stephanie Richards recruitment research manager at the Daily Telegraph said:

"The lack of prestige associated with manufacturing careers can be traced back to schools and education. As a discipline engineering simply isn’t promoted enough among our young people."

She continued: "Employers are also letting UK engineers down. They need to do more to help their technical experts make the move into senior management by providing them with the opportunities to develop the softer skills we need in our business leaders today."

 

[corus]

There was also an article in today's Gruandian that said there is a skill's shortage and labour will have to be imported to the UK to fill the skills gap.
In my view, employer's in engineering and manufacturing are having problems recruiting people - at the low pay rates they offer and worsening employment conditions. Perhaps an out of work Hungarian might be interested in a career in engineering in the UK but most graduates will now look for more lucrative earnings, if they're to pay off their tuition fees before they retire.

corus

 

[QCE]

Note: An engineer in the UK is pretty much anyone that does anything technical. The auto mechanic is called an engineer in the UK! Also the pay for design engineering jobs in the UK is very low compared to the USA and Canada. Most people in the UK would not count engineers as a professional career. This is what I noted when I was there for 2 years. Also the chartered engineering thing was very confusing.

People from the UK may care to comment.

 

[rhodie]

As an American, I would certainly consider moving to the UK, but I have discovered that I don't speak the language.

/Henry Higgins

 

[sean01]

QCE,

You're certainly right about the pay being lower in the UK than in America - and as for the confusion about what a Chartered engineer is, for me personally - I've never been confused about it - but NO company I have worked for has ever asked me to have this registration !! The closest I got was when someone who worked for me asked if I would mentor him towards his CEng qualification.

On a lighter note - I am studying at Cranfield at the moment - one of my favourite questions in a management assignment was "why are you studying engineering ?" Wasn't sure if they were asking because they wanted to know my reasons - or they didn't know whether it was worth running the course next year !!!

sean

 

[corus]

QCE is almost right about the definition of an engineer in the UK though I'd widen it to anyone who can use a screwdriver. If you put your occupation as an engineer on a recruitment site then you'll be swamped by jobs from TV engineer (TV repairman) to Executive Highway Dispensing Engineer (roadsweeper).
The term engineer now seems to encompass most skilled and unskilled jobs so that its meaning has now become muddied and generally refers to someone who has an education of some sort, and can handle a brush.
The word engineer probably needs redefining or replacing with some other term if the respect, and salaries, are to be improved. If the word was dropped altogether then the occupation might have more meaning. Maybe Mechanical 'Designeer' to replace Design Engineer might have more appeal. Any suggestions welcome.

corus

 

[QCE]

Corus,

Many people on this site freak out when you try and regulate how the term "engineer" is used. These are mostly unlicensed engineers and engineers without university degrees. (This is of course a guess) The USA is closer to the UK than you may think - What exactly is a Microsoft Certified Software Engineer? Only in a couple of countries has the term Engineer been regulated and in those countries Engineers are highly respected.

QCE

 

[arunmrao]

In India only those qualified from recognised and accredited institutions with a degree course are designated as engineers. Those having completed a diploma are not entitled to be called as an engineer. Now with the advent of software wave, everyone is a software engineer. Possibly he is a school dropout and has done a certificate course froma training institute(plenty of them around).

 

[sc]

A friend of mine no longer calls himself an engineer, he is now a consultant to the building industry. He also charges more as people expect to pay higher costs for a consultant than they would for an engineer. Lucky bugger.

We engineers are our own worst enemy we constantly compete against each other to get the job (whilst lowering fees). Thus we have to pay our staff less, so how can we attract engineers if we can't aford to pay them the right wage.


regards
sc

 

[WingnPrayer]

As Drafter in the US, I personally think that not only the "Engineer" title is bantered about recklessly, but the "Designer" title, too.

Perhaps I'm just a little old fashioned?

Faith: Your heart knowing there's an ocean before your eyes get there to see it...

 

[Cooky]

Here's an interesting article I found at the UK's Engineering Council web site.....

http://www.engc.org.uk/

Why isn't the title 'engineer' protected in the UK?

The word 'engineer' has been in common use in the English language for many centuries, and is widely understood by the public to describe anyone whose work relates to engineering - particularly manufacture or maintenance. There is no likelihood that the engineering profession could obtain rights to prevent existing users using the term to describe themselves.


Why are engineers overseas able to protect their title?


In most of Europe professional engineers hold a title 'ingenier', or similar. This word is not defined in the same way as 'engineer' and may therefore be protected, legally. Commonwealth, and ex-commonwealth countries like Australia and the USA suffer the same problems as the UK.


UK engineers may register as European Engineers, and adopt the prefix title EurIng (which is recognised as a formal title which may be used on official documentation, including passports), and 15,000 registrants have chosen to do this.


What protection of title does a professional engineer have in the UK?


The register titles 'Chartered Engineer', 'Incorporated Engineer', and 'Engineering Technician', and their related designatory letters, are protected by civil law. The Engineering Council UK and the Institutions pursue abusers of these titles through the courts.


Why are professional engineers not recognised by statute, like doctors or lawyers?


Statutory recognition of professions in the UK requires the particular functions being controlled by statute to be defined. It has not proved possible to isolate the functions that engineers undertake, except in narrow sectors (dam designers, certificated marine engineers, mining engineers). Unsurprisingly, coverage of other professions is rarely comprehensive. For instance, medical procedures may in fact be undertaken by anyone who obtains the consent of their patient. Restrictions on legal practice are confined to the courtroom - legal advice is freely available from unregistered lawyers.


Why can anyone practise engineering in the UK, whatever their qualifications or registration status?


The legal system in the British Isles and many non-European countries is permissive - the common law having developed in such a way as to maximise individual rights. Health and safety regulations tend to apply to employers and (corporate) operators. Attempts to restrict access to professional practice are these days seen as anti-consumer, or anti-competitive.


What is the Engineering Council UK doing to raise the status of UK engineers?


Notwithstanding the legal and political situation the Engineering Council UK works to gain greater recognition, both legal and public, for the standing of UK registered engineers. We work closely with the Health and Safety Executive on advice to employers on use of registered engineers, and employers and employees associations to promote better understanding of the value of employing registered engineers and technicians.

In 2002 we supported a survey by ETB of current licensing practice in the UK and overseas. This was published as a pdf document.

 

[HamishMcTavish]

here's the link to the ETB report

http://www.engc.org.uk/registration/pdf/

LicensingLiteratureReview.pdf

regards, HM

No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary - William of Occam

 

[chris9]

I find it hilarious that some employers moan that there is a shortage of qualified engineers and they have difficulty recruiting.

Call out a domestic plumber in the UK and this will cost you at least £50 per hour, you could probably hire a Chartered Engineer on a contract for around £35 per hour or less.

This is why I have to snigger to myself when I hear management complain that they can’t find anyone who has the experience and qualifications to do the job.

 

[NanoMan]

For anyone who sees a shortage of engineers, simply place an ad in the paper and see how inundated you are by applicants.

I've been hearing that line since I started engineering school in 1983... with the exception of about two years during the bubble, I haven't seen it yet.

I only *wish* it were true.

 

[WingnPrayer]

As I seek Drafting employment, I am somewhat amazed at seeing some of the offbeat requirements being called for in my area (Texas). I see requirements not only for certain types of Drafting experience, but also "woodworking experience being neccessary", "electrician or journeyman electrician experience absolutely required", or even "prior steelworking experience a must".
My personally knowing friends who are experienced tradesmen in their respective areas tells me they wouldn't want to give up their positions for near entry level pay as a Drafter. They also lack the basic training of a Drafter.
I only hope that this so-called employers' market is nothing more than a bubble that will pass, too.

Faith: Your heart knowing there's an ocean before your eyes get there to see it...

 

[PSE]

WingnPrayer brings up a good point about the source of these so-called shortages of engineers. The employers set such a narrow (perfect fit) job requirements listing out that it might be rare to actually find a candidate. They seem unwilling to look farther afield (both geographically as well as technically) as to a good to best fit candidate.

Regards,

 

[BJC]

PSE
The ads you are refering to are "pre-identified alien ads". The employer knows exactly who they are looking at and taylor the ads to fit that indivual. Usually it's a local grad student from another country that has been working with or for them. They run enough ads for a particular job so they can go to the INS and say "We've tried and tried to get an Amercian citizen for theis job and there are none. We need a visa or green card ...."
They run the ads in magazines and news papers to assure they can say they tried without getting a serious response. Their favorite use to be running high tech positions in ENR- a construction magazine.

 

[ewh]

BJC is correct about employers tailoring ads to match a specific individual. I've seen it done so that a TX aerospace company could hire Canadian contract workers as directs. The ads went out in a few trade magazines, no one else applied who could meet the exact qualifications, so viola! the Canadians become direct. I have nothing against Canadians, just the sly way companies have of getting around the INS. Perhaps this should go into the ETHICS forum...

 

[GregLocock]

If you can, get hold of virtually any copy of the IMechE's monthly mag "Professional Engineering". In it you will find letters and articles bemoaning the low pay and poor career prospects of British engineers, mostly written by engineers, and more articles similar to the Cranfield one on the shortage of engineers, written by universities and employers. It astonishes me that no-one makes the connection.

I am /very/ glad to be out of that bearpit and to be working in a country where engineering is a respected and well-paid field of endeavour.

Incidentally I struggle rather with the Engineering Council's article. Last time I looked Canada was a memeber of the Commonwealth, and it has probably the most succesful control over the word "engineer" and licensing that we can see today.



Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[Lorentz]

Hello All:

The attached link provides a counterpoint to predictions of shortages of engineers/scientists:

http://www.phds.org/reading/guirr2002/teitelbaum.php#4

I think that the author is particularly witty in noting that there is "No Shortage of Shortages." To sumarize his findings:

"Suffice it to say that there is no credible quantitative evidence of such shortages."

and then further:

"Certainly there are no credible projections of future "shortages" on which sensible policy responses might be based."

The author also raises a question that would concern any young person contemplating a career in science or engineering:

"Can those contemplating a career in science or engineering realistically aspire to a middle class life style, roughly parallel (even if somewhat less remunerative) to those experienced in other professions?"

I recommend this article to everyone who has a child approaching high school graduation.