CRUDE OIL BURNING

[EMSOGI]

Hi to everybody.
I'm doing a feasibility study concerning the possibility of burning directly crude oil as it is(or crude oil with the minimum possible treatment) to preoduce electric energy.
I'm trying to identify if there are machines (internal combustion engines I suppose or similar) able to do that.
Any suggestion?

Thanks in advance and regards

lottol

 

[MintJulep]

On what scale?

Big marine diesels burn oil that comes from pretty low in the distallation process. Some I think will burn "bunker crude".

Why are you limiting your search to IC engines?

 

[EMSOGI]

I'm not limiting!
Any technology can be analyzed... any suggestion apart ICEs?

 

[arunmrao]

furnace oil is used commonly in 1 megawatt and above generators.

 

[TheTick]

Steam turbines can take almost any heat source and turn it into electricity.

 

[EMSOGI]

Thanks TheTick but that was not the actual point....

 

[prost]

Isn't one of the reasons you cannot use crude oil directly is that the amount of impurities and the polluntants that end up in the air after burning oil with those impurities (such as sulfur)?

 

[Cockroach]

Crude oil needs to be refined, hence the oil processing of cracker plants, predominantly in the Gulf Coast States, Eastern Canada.

Kerosine is probably the first and cheapest fuel extracted, the other hydrocarbons are built up from the various CxHy. Typically most petroleum finds come with a gas cap such as methane or propane, it is a varous mix also known as Marsh Gas. This is blead off or returned to the formation in order to keep the pressures up.

As the ground water table rises, the petroleum becomes more sour which indicates the presence of H2S. This can be flaired off, hence the pollution causing atmospheric agents the enviro-Nazi movement, global warming, etc are bitching about. In Alberta, a secondary industry for removal of sulfer using scrubbers has provided this for various pharmacy, steel making markets.

But in general, crude is a source for alternate higher grade fuels. Burning it directly requires elevated heat sources and given that, it would burn poorly. When refined, it produces the various grades of petroleum products, hence the refinery business.

Turbines typically on site use the gas cap or methane/propane fuels as their source of electrical generating energy. These are finds together with the strike in the oilfield.

Hope this helps.

Kenneth J Hueston, PEng
Principal
Sturni-Hueston Engineering Inc
Edmonton, Alberta Canada

 

[Cockroach]

I forgot to mention, remember when Sadam lit the Kuwait oilfields on fire? Yeah it does burn at elevated temperatures but you get the coke domes forming around the wellheads.

This is what you would be doing trying to burn crude oil. I agree with past comments regarding the impurities which make this process impractical.

Kenneth J Hueston, PEng
Principal
Sturni-Hueston Engineering Inc
Edmonton, Alberta Canada

 

[TheTick]

Let me connect some dots for you...

Burn crude oil...produce heat..heat makes steam...steam powers turbine...turbine turns generator

 

[arunmrao]

Without crude oil burning global temperature is to rise by 3 C,which is remarkably high. Ocean levels are expected to rise inundating many low lying places.

Will you be ever allowed to undertake such an exercise except in dark African continent.

 

[athomas236]

I was involved in a conventional power plant that burned crude oil in the mid-80s. It was located near Basra.

Now involved in a similar power plant but a different location.

Do you have any specific questions.

athomas236

 

[SlideRuleEra]

To answer your question, yes. Diesel engines made by Wartsila, here is a link

http://www.wartsila.com/en,powerplants,0,tbd,14028707874003900,400965628669694,,4700.htm

Of course crude oil varies a lot, here is more info

http://www.wartsila.com/Wartsila/do...troleum_industry_fuels_for_piston_engines.pdf

http://www.SlideRuleEra.net

 

[EMSOGI]

This was very useful...
Thanks a lot!

 

[athomas236]

Gentlemen,

Sorry if I caused any confusion. The project I am involved in is a conventional 300MWe plant burning crude oil. So we have the usual crude oil storage tanks etc.

athomas236

 

[EMSOGI]

TheTick: that was obvious...
Anyway thanks for your help...

 

[taylorg]

Bit of a moot point really unless you can tell us the spec of the crude oil.
There are quite a few diesel engine plants in Equador and Sudan oil fields burning crude oil after minimal treatment, but the crude is actually nicer than a lot of HFO grades I've worked with...
Rolls Royce engines (4012's) are also out there running on crude oil.
Got an analysis you can give us?

 

[EMSOGI]

SlideRuleEra, do you know (or anybody else of course!) other names of manufacturers for this type of application or just Wartsila? The motors' size should be around 10 to 25 MWe.
Thanks in advance.

Lottol

 

[taylorg]

Again it depends on the analysis of your crude lottol, but in the size range you want MAN B&W of Germany are about the only other ones making units in that size range.
By the way Wartsila have had significant problems burning crude. Their engines are fine on it but the HP fuel system is another matter....

I believe there is also a conventional thermal (700MW) plant about to begin construction in Saudi using boilers and steam turbines on crude oil. I assume it is nice sweet crude and/or they have FGD etc!

 

[djack77494]

Besides the pollution aspects of burning crude, I think that the main problem or difficulty comes from the fact that crude is not a distillate. None of the potential nasty stuff in the "bottom of the barrel" have been removed from the crude. Obviously you can burn it - hell, we burn coal, coke, wood, biomass, and all sorts of stuff, but your equipment has to be designed for it. If you want to displace a distillate fuel, and I believe that is the crux of your question, then the quality of the crude will be a very important factor in determining whether or not this will be possible.
Doug