Current Engineering Salaries 8

[southbeach]

Hi to all,

I am curious for those that are liscensed engineers, what is the salary like?

Is it true, skilled tradesmen earn more than an engineer?

If so, that is strange considering an engineer would more then likely be the project leader with skilled trades people reporting to them.

All comments are much appreciated

 

[jmw]

I think you may find that train drivers, public sector employees, dustmen etc. can all earn more than an engineer, especially as they get overtime week-end rates while for the poor engineer, "it goes with the territory" (boy, am I get repetitive lately or what?) but as everyone else will tell you, if you wanted to earn megabucks you should have listened to your mum and trained as a lawyer or a dentist or something (apparently some denstists have a nice sideline selling on the gold fillings they remove and people forget to claim... the price of gold being what it is today).

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[Qshake]

Be careful to whom you are comparing salaries....a long while ago, when still a youngster in the field, I recall the many trades that made more than I.

Now as I reflect back on it, they were at the end of their career and I had a long journey ahead. I don't think there are many in the labor trade that make more than I now without working some serious OT.

Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

 

[metengr]

http://www.salary.com/home/layoutscripts/homl_display.asp

 

[niallmacdubhghaill]

I think Qshake is correct in saying not to compare starting salaries for an engineer with those of experienced tradesmen. Additionally, look at the work that they have to do-hard physical work in many conditions. Also there is the intelectual satisfaction to consider. I took my current job in the full knowlegde that initially I would earn less than I would elsewhere, but also knowing that I would be more stimulated here than elsewhere. Also, as you gain experience and accreditation your earning potential goes up.

 

[Twoballcane]

Which trade skill makes more than an Engineer if working the same amount of hours per week (40 hrs) on average?

 

[niallmacdubhghaill]

I would GUESS that at least initially (once apprenticeships are finished) many tradesmen would make more than engineers, but not by working a 40hr week, and certainly not from working at a desk in an air conditioned environment. But while the hourly rate for a plumber/electrician will never really change that much, and when they are 50, they will still be running around building sites in all kinds of weather (unless they are lucky enough to have their own business) whereas in the same instance a chartered/licensed engineer will soon make a nice salary and have a comfortable lifestyle

 

[cuky2000]

Engineers with PE typically get around 20% higher paid rate than engineer without it. Only 2% of the individual working in engineering and science field, are reported to hold a PE license. However, it is fair to say that not all engineering fields may require PE.

Below are three links with salary information for engineering. I hope this help

http://cuky2000.250free.com/Eng1.jpg

http://cuky2000.250free.com/Eng3.jpg

http://cuky2000.250free.com/Eng4.jpg

[sub]PS: Even though the enclose data is not updated and include natural statistics imprecision, this figures could provide a good idea of range, tendency and perhaps average engineering salary level according with location, specialty, number of years of experience, higher degree obtained, etc.[/sub]

 

[Ashereng]

Trades vs Engineer salary?

Supply vs Demand!!!

Trades up in Ft. Mac make more than many engineers (PE), including probably a goodly portion of us in this forum, because:
- HUGE labour shortage in Ft.Mac
- relatively northerly/remote location
- construction camp
- 12hr shifts, depending

If there is a shortage, rates go up. Not many ASME welder's, alloy welders around so that's a premium. We are also short millwright, I&C, electrical, heavy machine operators, truck drivers, pipe fitter, and every other trade you can think of, including cooks.

The last camp I was in, we changed cooks 3 times in 6 months - like anything else, good help is hard to find.


"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[ScottyUK]

Ashereng,

How are non-Canadians fixed for working at the Fort? It's the kind of environment I would work well in.

----------------------------------

I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

 

[Ashereng]

Scotty, I don't understand the question. As long as you are legal to work in the Fort, you should be good to go. Coming from the UK, I would think getting a work visa should be relatively straight forward.

You may want to begin by contacting one of the many head hunting firms specializing in obtaining personnel for the Fort.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[waross]

Hi ScottyUK
Trades hiring is controlled by the craft unions. Back in the 70s, electricians with an Interprovincial Trades Qualification ticket were good to go. Those with other tickets were given a temporary permit. I think it was 60 days. They had to pass the local ticket within 60 days or leave. There were a lot of 59 day wonders who recycled every few months.
At the union, the first out will be the locals from Edmonton. The next tier is workers from other International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers from across Canada. After that will be "Off the street" hires where you would come in. As the weather closes in and the jobs scale down for the winter, it's last in-first out. I understand that the projection this year is that in about August, the local boys will be working and the calls will be going out across Canada. Off the street will be later in the year.
You would have no trouble challenging the exam but I think that you would be better off looking for emgineering than craft work.
A conversation overheard back in the 70's;
Cast, a startup engineer, an electrical foreman and two electricians.
Work schedule, start when the day shift goes home. Leave when the day shift arrives. Double time after 7.5 hours.
Conversation.
Electrician, "Dang, this income tax is killin me!"
Engineer, "You can't be paying that much. How much do you pay anyway?"
Electrician, "Here's my pay stub for last week."
Engineer, after looking at pay stub, "Your tax is more than my gross!"
That was 30 years ago, but I did have a chat a few weeks ago with someone conversant with the expected hiring pattern this year.
I think electricians are getting $33. Canadian. Double time after 37.5 hours per week.
Normal years ago was 5 x nine hour shifts. When the pressure is on, 9 hours Saturday, at double time. The lucky few on test and commisioning, the sky's the limit.
Back in the early 90's I was hearing peaks of $10,000 per month on a base of about 23$ per hour for the lucky few on startup crews. Pulp mill, not the oil patch.
This is a boom year. There are a lot of years when a lot of engineers will be building careers and earning more and a lot of the construction electricians will be lucky to find a job driving a Cab.
Remember the book title, "The Grass is Always Greener Over the Septic Tank".
There's a lot of good entry positions but it may not be wise to leave a steady poosition for Fort Mac.
Is that Ft. MacMurray or Ft. MacKay.
No matter, much the same and not that far apart.
respectfully

 

[ScottyUK]

Hi Asher,

Badly worded question on my part - sorry.

I hear MoltenMetal's endless doom & gloom about the fate of many engineers heading to Canada for work, and I was curious if foreign or migrant workers had similar difficulties up at Fort McMurray. I'm obviously not a Canadian citizen, and I'm not a registered 'PE' under the North American registration system, although I have equivalent Chartered Engineer registration in the UK. I'm not sure how that would affect working as an engineer in Canada - I know it would prove restrictive in the US until I took the PE exam. I guess being a C.Eng doesn't preclude earning an honest living as a skilled trade anyway, except for the vaguely nonsensical problem of being 'over-qualified'. I have a problem with that concept because you are either capable of doing the job, or are not. If it was a problem then I could always forget to disclose it.

I'll have a poke about on the net for recruiters - are there any hot tips you're aware of?


----------------------------------

I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

 

[rb1957]

hi ScottyUK,

i can add something on the Canadain scene.

it would depend alot on the industry you going into. The key question seems to be are you going to be in position where Joe Q Public might labour under the misapprehension that they are a registered professional engineer. some industries, like airplane manufacture, don't require P.Eng status (and have gone through phases of discouraging it) 'cause we don't deal directly with the public, 'cause our industry is highly regulated already, 'cause the companies involved have certificates from the local professional organisations. but most other fields (civil, structural, etc) don't have this sort of protection so (i'd expect) would require professional status.

in the interim you could probably work under the supervision of a P.Eng. whilst you get your accreditation. getting your ticket they'll probably require a bunch of exams, 'cause you probably went to a university outside of canada. i'd contest this, citing your experience. they'll give you a board interview (or should that be bored ?, since in my case it was very much just a process thing).

good luck

 

[Ashereng]

ScottyUK,

In Canada, the fact that you are a Chartered Engineer in the UK probably means you have a good chance of getting a PEng equivalent. May take a bit of time, not much money, but time. In Alberta (that is where Ft. McMurray and Ft. McKay are), the association is APEGGA. You can google them. Not sure if there is an oversea's toll free number but you can find out.

Meanwhile, you are free to work, once you have a work visa. Without a PEng, you can not be called and engineer, but you can do the technical work of an engineer. In most cases, the senior engineer on the job will be the final check and stamping everything in the end. I haven't used my stamp more than 2x since I got mine. Oh, you can also be paid like an engineer - just call yourself a "specialist".

With regards to the trades, the going rate for E&IC is well above the $33 waross is mentioning. I am hearing $40 and up for sure, depending on tickets. Again, since you don't have a ticket, you may not be able to work, depending on the site. Not all sites are union. CNRL is considering brining in Chinese crafts - I'm guessing they aren't ticketed journeyman in Canada. Then again, they are probably making less than everyone else.

It is Fort McMurray - where we are talking about the "hot market" stuff is going on. Fort McKay is north of Fort McMurray, and smaller.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[moltenmetal]

ScottyUK:

There isn't really such a thing as being over-qualified, but there IS such a thing as being insubordinate, unsatisfied with the level of responsibility afforded to you in your job, or so distant in time from your relevant experience that it's no longer truly relevant. As surprising as it may be to some people, a person with 5 years recent experience in the local market working for a competitor represents a lower hire risk to a potential employer than someone with 20 years experience outside the country, working in a different language etc. with zero local experience. In my company's recent experience, the same often goes for engineers who re-train as tradesmen, draftsmen etc. versus those who chose that line of work in the first place- the latter are a better fit for the task at hand, despite the former group's superior theoretical background. So there's a little more to it than merely whether or not (in theory) you can "do the job".

If you've got relevant petroleum industry engineering experience, can speak and write English fluently and are willing to work on contract in the Fort, you'll probably find a job. You'll probably be out on your @ss again when the oil boom dies down again, but maybe that'll be a long time from now and there's a good buck to be made between now and then. With an education from Great Britain, the lack of an Alberta P.Eng. license won't affect your ability to find work as an employee except perhaps as a civil/structural engineer. It'd be a little tougher if you were educated in India or China etc.

At the moment, lots of former PDVSA employees kicked out of their jobs by Chavez in Venezuela are moving north to take advantage of the oil sands boom.

Unfortunately, ~55% of the economic ("skilled worker" class) immigrants to Canada continue to choose to settle in the greater Toronto area, not in Ft. McMurray. And nobody at Citizenship and Immigration Canada seems to give a rat's hind end about whether or not people settle where the jobs are, or whether or not the skills and education of the immigrants selected meet the needs of the current labour market. So we deport tradesmen from jobs while over-immigrating engineers relative to market demand. Though many make the successful transition to employment as engineers, thousands more go on to mere survival jobs and disenchantment, and a great many others go back home with their reserves of hard capital depleted. Of course, most of that risk goes away if you pre-arrange a job before you choose to come.

 

[ScottyUK]

Previous three posts: thank you all for the time you've taken. I appreciate it. I'll follow up on some of the leads you have given me.


----------------------------------

I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

 

[tulum]

For engineers in Ontario Canada here is a link to a recent salary survey...

http://www.peo.on.ca/

then go to publications/salary survey (right hand)

 

[berkshire]

ScottyUK (Electrical)
One thing to watch out for, if you are serious about going to Canada is their Immigration points system.
I looked into going there a couple of years ago.
It discriminates against anybody over 50.
I am currently 64 so they did not want me.
B.E.

 

[ScottyUK]

Hi Berkshire,

I'm 30 behind you, so they might let me in!


----------------------------------

I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...