Definition of a Watercourse ?? 1

[Build22]

Definition of a Watercourse ??

I don't know about other states, but in New York the DEC has set regulations on structures in proximity to "watercourse" in planned development.

To me a "watercourse" is a stream, creek or passage of moving water.

Before I ask the DEC ..... I'm trying to get a reasonable idea of what most people might conclude it to be and/or if someone has had past experience with this area??

Some of the things I'm thinking that are criteria are

- Depth/steepness of contour
- Continuation of drainage area - does it run to a stream or ditch ??
- Standing water

Any input would be appreciated, thanks

 

[Ryb01]

This is an interesting question. In my experience, a "watercourse" would be defined as a natural drainage feature that conveys or has the ability to convey flow. (i.e. creek, stream, river)

This term has been usually referenced with a natural type of feature, man made channels/ditches have bee referenced as a "manmade watercourse".

One thing to keep in mind....watercourse in the eyes of conservation/fisheries personel is often associated with fish habitat or a navicable water way. This may influence your approval/design process. The same can be said about the difference between a creek and/or ditch.

 

[RWF7437]

"WATERCOURSE — Any natural or artificial, permanent or intermittent, coastal or inland, public or private water body or water segment, such as ponds, lakes, reservoirs, rivers, streams, brooks or waterways, which is contained within, flows through, or borders on the Town of Mamaroneck but shall not include structures as defined by law."

A quick Google came up with this. But simply asking the DEC sounds like the most direct way to answer your question.

 

[Build22]

Thanks for input, guys. It is appreciated.

Your responses are pretty much my interpretation of the definition.


Ryb01 - good points about man made vs natural - and - the concern being on waterways.

There is two very definite watercourses in the area that I am dealing with. There is another area that has just a deep swale in one area that water does drain through. However, it flattens out and there is no real continuous path. What I am wondering is how they will view that ?


Thanks again, guys




So I guess my real question is ........ Does it have to be a discern-able continuous path that leads to a stream or ditch ?

and

Have they included their interpretation to be any swale on a piece of property to be a water course ??


One last point ..... my problem with asking has always been, whenever I do, I always get the most restrictive answer.

 

[Build22]

Thanks for input, guys. It is appreciated.

Your responses are pretty much my interpretation of the definition.


Ryb01 - good points about man made vs natural - and - the concern being on waterways.

There is two very definite watercourses in the area that I am dealing with. There is another area that has just a deep swale in one area that water does drain through. However, it flattens out and there is no real continuous path. What I am wondering is how they will view that ?







So I guess my real question is ........ Does it have to be a discern-able continuous path that leads to a stream or ditch ?

and

Have they included their interpretation to be any swale on a piece of property to be a water course ??


One last point ..... my problem with asking has always been, whenever I do, I always get the most restrictive answer.


Thanks again, guys

 

[RWF7437]

"So I guess my real question is ........ Does it have to be a discern-able continuous path that leads to a stream or ditch ?

"and

"Have they included their interpretation to be any swale on a piece of property to be a water course ??"

If a term is used in a regulation it is usually defined in that regulation. So other questions which occur to me are:
Do you have a copy of the regulation ?
Is "watercourse defined in the regulation?
If it is not defined there, is it defined in the State Law ? Regulations must be consistent with State Law.


"One last point ..... my problem with asking has always been, whenever I do, I always get the most restrictive answer."

If you cannot find a definition in either the regulation or the law then you will have to ask for an interpretation but you don't have to accept the first interpretation you get; especially if it doesn't seem reasonable. Nor do you have to accept other interpretations which seem unreasonable to you. You may also request a written interpretation. You may also frame your question to the regulatory agency either narrowly or broadly which will affect the kind of answer you get, either narrow or broad, or restrictive or permissive, general or specific. But you need never be afraid to ask a public agency a reasonable question.

Finally, there is the question of how important is this regulation to the success or failure of your project? If the most restrictive answer would kill your project then it is worth your time and effort to get a clear answer. But, as is often the case, even a very restrictive answer may only lead to some small increased cost or inconvenient change in your design. In that case, your worries and efforts are misplaced.

good luck

 

[Build22]

Thanks,

Excellent points. I will deeper into the definition.


I appreciate your response

 

[beej67]

I was told on a site visit once, by a reviewing authority, "If you tip a Coke Bottle over in South Fulton County that's Waters of the State."



Generally accepted definitions really don't matter. What matters is the definition of the reviewing agency. Get clear on that.

 

[Build22]

LOL, I hear ya, beej67.


That's why I'm asking. To see if anyone has had experience in what I might encounter in the future.


Thanks for the reply - (sry I didn't see it until today.)