Definition of an Engineer 26

[Ashereng]

I recently brought my little ones to my office, to see where I work.

They have only seen me "colour" my drawing, and working on my computer at home, and seem to think that engineering consists of:
1) drinking a lot of coffee (yes, I am cutting back)
2) colouring (I do a lot of back checking and review)
3) surfing the web (I do a lot of design and sizing on my computer)

However, this descripton aside, how would you describe/define engineering to a group of Grade 10s? I don't mean the specific type of engineers, like a piping engineer works on a project to bring oil from Alaska to Texas, but more generic

What does an "engineer" do?

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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[BBENG]

You say that Engineering is not by “trial and error”, although most of the equations found in the Code/Text books we use everyday came from professors and graduate students in the lab doing experiments by trial and error.

 

[KENAT]

csd72 (Structural)

I must disagree with you sir, although you sound like the quality manager at my last place!

I've encountered at least one system that we were unable to successfully analyze given our understanding of it.

We knew there was another force acting but just from examining, the theoretical system couldn’t find it.

We came up with a number of ideas of what it might be and a number of experiments to rule out the ideas.

Eventually we narrowed it down to one option and by doing some more experiments, partial analysis and more closely looking at changes that had been made to the system by someone else we not only found the force but also a fix to the performance.

Despite the fact that this process ended up with fixing our problem our Quality manager decided this was all very amateurish etc.

To me it was entirely scientific and by extension valid engineering. We wrote up pretty much every experiment and their results along with conclusions & recommendations. It was a bit like doing an interval bisection.

If they used a scientific method to determine the design, even if it wasn’t based on mathematical analysis, doesn’t mean they weren’t scientific. Even today for certain analysis physical tests, or scale models etc are used, usually to verify results from some kind of mathematical or computational analysis but sometimes to provide input data for these or even to provide almost complete answers. To completely rule out trial and error is to rule out a powerful engineering tool, so long as it is done methodically to a plan etc I consider it valid under certain circumstances.

 

[mytintin]

Engineers:
A geek with a serious math background, no fashion sense, and stable income

 

[kat6787]

This was always on of my favorites:

"Engineering is the art of modeling materials we do not wholly understand, into shapes we cannot precisely analyze so as to withstand forces we cannot properly assess, in such a way that the public has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance." - Dr AR Dykes, British Institution of Structural Engineers, 1976.

 

[GRAHAM6]

ENGINEER,
Someone with knowledge,experience and qualification of a discipline who is not too enamoured of themselves that they do not listen to an experienced tradesperson when problems arise.Everyone else is just a graduate waiting to learn in the real world.




"Somewhere,there is a village that he is depriving of an idiot"

 

[HgTX]

If only...

Hg

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[2dye4]

Some think engineers use trial and error or intuition.
Some think engineers use math and physics.
It's really the same thing. The crux of the matter is that all of mankinds ideas are theories. Rules for predicting the outcomes of experiments. Even dropping a rock on ones foot. History has taught you this will hurt and it probably will. A good engineer strives to form accurate models in his mind which are mathematical in nature whether he realizes it or not. By studying math an engineer is able to construct new models or make use of existing ones of more complexity than he could without math. The example above by KENAT is certainly a valid approach to problem solving when existing models give no predictive power. The poke it with a stick and see what happens is the step that has to be taken. The difference is the engineer will try to use the results to formulate new models of the process, perhaps using physical laws and math learned in school. He will in essence try to determine the Gradient at various points so as to give understanding of the direction to move when future occurances happen. The non engineer will record data as points of success and the only thing avalilable in the future is past points that did one thing or another. If asked what will happen when variable C is increased he can only look at his notebook of recorded points and shrug his shoulders if this data point wasn't recorded.

 

[btrueblood]

No trial and error? Orville and Wilbur had to figure out how to make an airplane using primarily that technique, since most prior data had serious errors.

Of course, not long ago, a certain large airplane manufacturer's marketing department boasted that their new jetliner was to be a completely "virtual" design. But from this source:

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/787family/programfacts.html

comes the quote: "Hours of wind tunnel tests:
15,000 hours of wind tunnel tests".

Nobody does a CFD model without asking the one true supercomputer for a hint at the right answer.

Science is just trial and error with a feedback loop.

 

[HgTX]

"Science is just trial and error with a feedback loop."

excellent!

Hg

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[jonesboyengineer]

Engineers; In our vast array of fields are the very backbone of any successful/evolving society, one way I would define an engineer is someone who can take one "thought" and mold a thousand dreams.

 

[swivel63]

one of my frat brothers told me his job title is project engineer. he has a degree in construction management.

i was insulted.

oh yea, i guess an engineer is someone who uses science to improve the quality of life.

now....question for the masses:

what's harder, engineering undergrad/grad school or law school?

concept wise?

volume of work wise?

i had a discussion about that with a woman i used to date who worked admissions at a law school.

she said law school is much more difficult than engineering school.

 

[KENAT]

Probably depends how good you are at math.

Other than working out your fees how much math does the average lawyer need.

 

[HgTX]

It's not very meaningful to compare two fields that require completely different skill sets. Many engineers don't have the language skills, both in terms of words on the page and being articulate while thinking on their feet, that are required to be a good lawyer. Many lawyers don't have the math skills that are required for some of the mathier fields of engineering. On the other hand, most disciplines of civil engineering don't require really difficult math.

I would not do well in an English Literature curriculum. Does that mean that engineering is easier than English lit? For me, sure. That's why I do it--it's easy for me to do. Does it mean, as an absolute, that Engineering Is Easier Than English Literature?

Hg

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[ScottyUK]

A tongue-in-cheek remark from an old friend who studied medicine:

"Your engineering course is much harder than our medical degree: you guys have to actually understand all that stuff; we just have to memorise ours!"


----------------------------------

Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...

 

[KENAT]

It always concerned me that all the medics I knew had 'coloring books' as some of their course texts, especially in anatomy as I recal.

I don't know of any 'coloring books' for Engineering.

Maybe I should write one, "colour your aeroplane", color the subsystems as your memorize their names.

It's not just Engineers Vs non Engineer courses. Different courses claim elite status. For instance those of us on aero at university were lead to believe we were superior to most other engineering courses.

Given how long this thread is:

"Engineer - one who doesn't know how to describe what they do"

 

[csd72]

ScottyUK - good one,

I had a similar comment from a law student at my university.

HgTx,

You make a very good point, there are different forms of intelligence. Even something as seemingly basic as writing childrens books requires skills that most engineers would not possess.

 

[cksh]

I have come to the conclusion that I am in some void where no one really knows what an engineer is or what we are capable of I have a BSME and about 13 years of experience in design. I have worked as an ME. Lots of number crunching and I did my own CAD work. Now, at my current employer I am called a design engineer. I do the same exact work as the coop, the people in our group with no degrees, and someone fresh out of school with no experience and maybe not even a BS degree. If i get promoted to a senior engineer I will still be doing the same work. Kind of a waste of seven years getting my degree at night

I will get a call from a head hunter saying they have this great design engineer position. They describe it and it sounds as though they are reading my current job description. I tell them thats what I am doing now and I want something a bit more challenging. An engineering job where I don't have to spend 95% of my time creating 3d and drawings. How about the occasional fatigue calculation to get my brain working again Its as though as soon as they see 'engineer' in the job requirements they call everyone that has engineer in their job title and assumes its all the same.

What am I? An overpaid drafter but I won't tell them that! Maybe its because I am in Automotive

Sorry for my rant

 

[KENAT]

No it's not just automotive.

 

[prohammy]

Happens all over the engineering world.......wish it wasn't true

Kevin Hammond

Mechanical Design Engineer
Derbyshire, UK