Definition of Senior Mechanical Engineer 12

[Azzazil]

Hello all,

recently, my company promoted couple of engineers to senior mechanical engineer positions.

I am working in the automotive industry for a small volume car manufacturer, and the people who got this promotions are like in company for 3 years, so this is first time in their life they got some real automotive experience since they didn't have any from previous companies they used to work (overall they have 6-7 years of experience but in different companies that were not related to automotive). I also had oportunity to check their work and I wouldn't say that they can be considered as seniors since I saw bad drawings without tolerances and proper annotated dimensions. What I noticed is also that plenty of my colleagues want to become senior engineers even if they don't have experience that would justify their job title, in hope that senior title will give them higher salary when they move to anoter company. What is happening here is that engineers are not maturing well and they are promoted to positions which they are not up to it, and I can just see after their work bad documentation and bad products.
Can this be effect of young gennerations like Millenials which are considered as generations that want fast advancing and consider that they don't hive time to spend in industry more than 10 years to become senior engineer?

In my opinion senior should be somebody who have at least 10 years of experience just in one industry, like automotive, aerospace, production, etc., that is capable to do his task on his own, and that is capable to share his knowlege and guide juniors in supporting thier tasks.

My question here is what do you think, what experience and knowledge is necessary for someone to become a senior mechanical engineer?

 

[GregLocock]

Shrugs, my job title has bobbled around between engineer, senior engineer and lead throughout my career. Companies don't pay much attention to titles, they pay attention to $$$.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[Velyth]

in hope that senior title will give them higher salary when they move to anoter company

It will definitely help in the first screening of candidates, but any competent interviewer should be able to have a critical eye on the amount of time spent for each position on a resume. That and the performance during the interview. Assume they're slick and slide the right keywords in to land the senior position, if they went for a big fish company it'll become swiftly and awkwardly clear if they pretended to a higher proficiency than they actually have.

In the end the meaning of the prefix before engineer deforms a lot from a company to the next, I actually think it's a bit dangerous to let your current company promote you too fast if you don't feel you'll live up to your next target's expectations.

 

[desertfox]

Hi Azazzil

I have a very simple view on titles:- the company I work for can call me what they like provided they pay the correct salary!



“Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater.” Albert Einstein

 

[TheTick]

Divert 100% of the energy spent worrying about titles and divert it towards gaining experience and accomplishments.

 

[Jboggs]

Where did you get my picture??

Very senior (in fact near decrepit) engineer

 

[Jboggs]

My advice to the OP after nearly five decades in this business: Don't get too hung up on perceived unfair or unequal treatment. Its a fact of life wherever you go. You can waste a lot of energy on meaningless trivia. And it absolutely never helps your own career.

The perceived meanings for these titles vary with every company. What's the difference between a Senior Designer and a Junior Engineer? Who knows more? Who do you trust more? Who cares?

Another fact of life is this: those that know these folks also know whether or not they're truly competent. Reputation trumps Title every time.

 

[drawoh]

Azzazil,

In most of North America, the term "professional engineer" is legally protected and only licensed engineers can use it. Outside of that, you are a senior engineer if your company says you are.

--
JHG

 

[JStephen]

I think the title is really only meaningful in the company that assigns it.
Title inflation is common, and may be prestigious for employees and advantageous to the company if employees interact with outsiders. Sending your "Senior Sales Manager" out to a customer sounds better than "Salesman"

 

[Azzazil]

I actually think it's a bit dangerous to let your current company promote you too fast if you don't feel you'll live up to your next target's expectations.

I agree with your opinion, so it will be interesting to see if the company raises expectations regarding their work.

Divert 100% of the energy spent worrying about titles and divert it towards gaining experience and accomplishments.

Good advice, but I don't worry about myself since I am willing to learn and expand my knowledge in mechnaicnal engineering as much as I can.

.... oh yeah, they always wear loose, poorly fitting white shoes ....

Lol you gave me some laugh

Don't get too hung up on perceived unfair or unequal treatment. Its a fact of life wherever you go. You can waste a lot of energy on meaningless trivia. And it absolutely never helps your own career.

I agree but I just can't help myself when I see injustice :/.

Reputation trumps Title every time.

This is true, do you have also another life facts? You seem as a person of widsom.

@others - thanks for your reply.

 

[cowski]

...I saw bad drawings without tolerances and proper annotated dimensions.

I don't know... Sounds like a senior engineer about to get promoted into management if you ask me.

 

[Azzazil]

I think the title is really only meaningful in the company that assigns it.

Yes this can be the case too,but I would agree with Jboggs, that the reputation of the engineers will prove are capable of senior title or not.

Sounds like a senior engineer about to get promoted into management if you ask me.

Unfortuantely it looks that will happen in future maybe. I remember there is one book from Garry Kasparov where he mention that technicaly capable people will never reach some management positions because they are specialist in their branch of industry, who is not technically capable ends in management.

 

[GregLocock]

"technicaly capable people will never reach some management positions because they are specialist in their branch of industry, who is not technically capable ends in management." Sure but that is partly by choice.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[SnTMan]

After 5 or 6 years at my last employer I was promoted to Senior Project Engineer, based mostly on the color of my beard, I thought

Regard

Mike


The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[JohnRBaker]

In my nearly 50 years of working for both medium and large sized companies, I always found that the primary purpose of a job title was to define what salary category you fell into. Granted, there where some titles, like supervisor or manager or director or VP, which implied some level of managerial responsibility, but for most professional positions, job titles didn't mean all that much. And for the record, of those nearly 50 years working as an engineer, only about five of them were in a management role, and they were only in my first 20 years of my career. When I retired, I was making more than most managers and probably as much as some of our directors. And for what it was worth, during the last 15 years of my career, the title on my business card bore no resemblance whatsoever to my official title. The title I used, while it was unusual and got a lot of questions, it at least could be equated with what I did for the company, while my official title was only there to identify how I fit into some org-chart or at least the salary category that I enjoyed.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[dik]

The last company I was with standard charge out rates varied with the title. A senior engineer charge out rate was higher. The one structural guy was with the company about a year (he had several years experience) and he was listed as a senior structural engineer. I'd gone to university with his dad...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[JohnRBaker]

Yes, when we charged a customer for man-time, it was linked to the individual's job title only because their job title defined what their salary category was, which is how we determined those man-time rates. In other words, it was actually what salary category they fell into which determined their man-time rate.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[Azzazil]

After 5 or 6 years at my last employer I was promoted to Senior Project Engineer, based mostly on the color of my beard, I thought

Seriously? Did you boss had a bear too?

When I retired, I was making more than most managers and probably as much as some of our directors

Glad to hear that. Can I ask how is possible? Since management takes all the credit and usually having bigger salary than engineers due mantra that they are making tough decisions for benefit of the company?

The one structural guy was with the company about a year (he had several years experience) and he was listed as a senior structural engineer. I'd gone to university with his dad...

This is what I am talking about . Where your colleagues jelaous on him?

Also just came to my mind that in my company I had 3 senior engineers and if we can measure their knowledge on the scale form 1-100 points. First egineer had experience measured like 25 points, second 50 points and third one was most experienced which can be measured to 75 points. I always wonder how that 3 senior engineers have probably same salary but so much distinct experience.

What I notice that this title inflaction came with LinkedIn where people are seeking from their companies higher titles how they could get approval from this social network.

 

[CWB1]

Agreed with much of the above. One thing I would add is to clarify that there is an important difference between years worked and experience. IMHO experience suggests a diversity of your skillset and knowledge gained over time. Stated more bluntly, I have met many who have been doing one thing poorly for 40+ years and others who had more experience after 2-3 years. I'm honestly not sure if I had truly earned "Senior Engineer" when my second employer bestowed it after only six years in engineering, but I did have 10x the breadth and depth of experience of any other engineer. I spent a few months learning their products and culture, a few more developing software tools to replace me, and eventually resigned due to boredom.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Glad to hear that. Can I ask how is possible? Since management takes all the credit and usually having bigger salary than engineers due mantra that they are making tough decisions for benefit of the company?

I worked for a company that recognized that not all professionals felt that they needed to move to management in order to be better compensated. Rather, they rewarded us for our contribution to the organization, not just because of our title. And while it was true that that title was linked to a salary range, they had adequate 'titles' for those of us who had both been with the company a long time and who were in a position where our contributions were truly helping the bottom-line.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without