Design Basics 4

[MESC1]

I posted this in another forum earlier and realize this was probably the more appropriate location. If you come across it twice, I am sorry for the confusion.

I have a designer who is self-taught AutoCad. In that respect, he is not bad, but he was never taught the basics of design. Simple rules like eliminating doglegs, text size, hidden lines, scaling, and the like, are beyond his comprehension. My attempts to teach him these concepts have not been embraced. I have a dozen textbooks that describe these concepts, but this man is not going to read a book. He also will not simply comply because I say it is so; he insists upon seeing why it is correct and necessary. This has proven a difficult challenge since, as I mentioned, he will not read a book.
Can anyone recommend some smaller texts where these guidelines might be complied with explanations of why this is proper practice?

Thanks
SC

 

[ctopher]

ASME Y14.5M 1994 is a good place to start. If he does not want to follow it, it is a good time to find someone else. IMO.

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

 

[MadMango]

First off, we are talking about the basics of drafting, not design.

If you are in a position of leadership over him, and your engineering department has standard drafting practices established, he should follow. If your engineering department does not have drafting practices established, it's well beyond the time to start to identify them. Train your department to follow what has been established and agreed upon. This would include standardized templates and settings for all software (AuotCAD) being used in the department.

Sounds like he needs to learn to step-off his high horse, remove his "designer" cap and put on his "drafter" cap if he wants to produce his own drawings. If he can't understand the value of following industry standards as they are related to drafting practices, he has no business working with production drawings.

[green]"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."[/green]
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[MintJulep]

"Blueprint Reading Basics", by Warren Hammer.

One of my most frequently turned to references for drafting questions. My first edition has a friendly orange cover, but I see on Amazon that the second edition has a nice sky blue cover.

I agree with the other responders, if he can't or won't follow industry or internal standards he is a liability, not an asset.

Document your attempts to teach him; when, what, how and the results to protect yourself when the time comes....

 

[Heckler]

MadMango a

for your reply

Best Regards,

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SW2005 SP 4.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NIVIDA Quadro FX 1400
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

"There is no trouble so great or grave that cannot be much diminished by a nice cup of tea" Bernard-Paul Heroux

 

[EngJW]

Sounds like a very difficult situation. With any program like Autocad, Solidworks, or any kind of simulation program, one has to have a strong desire to learn it. Otherwise they will fight you till they wear you down, and any difficulty or anything that goes wrong they will make sure you know it. I was there when cad came in and some of the guys on the board had to be told to use it or hit the gate. You never get full productivity out of them.

Like others are saying, if he won't open a book his mind is closed. Good luck.

 

[ctopher]

I have that problem. There are approx 10 users here that went to the same training I did several years ago and still can't cope with the basics. I am done with baby sitting them. I am now 95% finished with writing a SW/PDMW procedure to give them and wash my hands with daily training. I know if we were to ever have a layoff, I know who will most likely be staying and who is going.

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

 

[MESC1]

My solution would be to dismiss him and hire a greenhorn with drafting skills but no design or electrical knowledge. If I could have someone who understood the basics of drafting and could operate AutoCAD, I can teach them everything they need to know about electricity.

However, this is not the challenge I have been given. Perhaps I am asking the wrong question. I have references for the standards that he needs to be practicing. I can summarize them for him. How do I get him to embrace them though? Until now, every attempt at such has been met with resistance. I have been told that those are antiquated rules that were only important before the computer age. Do you have any suggestions on how I can explain why these are not just arbitrary rules intended to make the job more tedious. Thus far, my best explanation has been to show him how much better the drawing looks if you follow these rules and how it is easier to read. He is not getting it.


Thanks
SC

 

[ewh]

I would simply keep bleeding on his prints until they met the standards. Don't sign off on them until they are correct. Sooner or later he is going to get tired of working on the same drawing. That is how I and many others learned proper drafting. It may make the checker unpopular, but I owe my skills to those red marked prints and still think of those checkers with much appreciation. It is unfortunate that in todays engineering environment drawing checkers are becoming a thing of the past.

 

[ctopher]

I agree with ewh. Also, after you have a correct drawing to your standards, make a copy of it and have him use it as a template.
You can also explain to him you are the boss and you have to follow company standards. If he doesn't like it, write him up, give him a warning.

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

 

[ajack1]

If the guy cannot do the job and does not want to learn show him the door, I am sure many others would jump at the opportunity.

If this is not an option and he insists on drawing without hidden lines and with dimensions crossing all over the show, let him take one of his drawings on the shop floor and be with the guy who is trying to build it.

I have always found those guys are more than happy to point out the error of my ways and what a fool I am ;-)

 

[MESC1]

I have tried that one. Our shop has been very quick to show him his errors. The guy comes back upstairs and quickly dismisses their complaints as petty whining from uneducated minions.

I swear the guy is just dumb. I can take the shops advice, dismiss the ridiculous complaints, and implement the valid concerns. He is an all or nothing person, he either takes everything a person says without question, or dismisses every word they utter. He completely lacks common sense or ability to reason. I knew I should have been concerned when the guy sincerely asked me if I had a geniuses IQ. The day I'm the smart one in the room is a scary day indeed.

The obvious solution would be to release him, but my company does not do that. Therefore, he must be retrained. There is added urgency because my replacement will be hired in a number of weeks, and the idea of this man advising the new hire scares me beyond measure.


Thanks
SC

 

[MadMango]

I guess you could try the approach that these standards are industry wide, and although many of your parts are made in-house, there ar instances were parts are sent to out vendors (not sure if this is your case, but it is ours). By adhearing to industry standards, there is less chance of confusion, and more chance of getting what you have specified on the drawings from the vendor.

We had a new hire a long time ago, while we were still using AutoCAD. He didn't like the color scheme we used for layers, so he changed all the colors to what he liked. When it came time to print and plot the drawings, since the colors defined the line weights, everything printed terribly. He then had to spend several weeks restoring all the prints to our corporate standards.

Standards: someone has already taken the time to figure something out and write it down. You just need to know where to find them.

[green]"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."[/green]
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[ajack1]

Well if he won’t listen and the company don’t want to do anything that only leaves two options, violence or promotion. ;-)

 

[ctopher]

ajack1,


Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

 

[fantech]

What state is this guy from? and does HE have education levels that entitle him to call others uneducated.
Fire him and find someone willing to work to your specs.

 

[MESC1]

He has no formal education, the only thing that distinguishes him from the shop is his shoes. (The shop has to wear steel-toed boots.)

Mind you, I am not opposed to people who lack degrees. I think on the job training can offer the right people as much training as a university. The problem is, if you're not willing to be trained even college won't help!

Thanks
SC

 

[ctopher]

Maybe have him work in the shop for a couple weeks. Let him see first hand how difficult it is to machine a part per his dwgs.

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

 

[MESC1]

We tried that; the problem is, he knows what he means.

Thanks
SC

 

[ctopher]

Curious. Can we have a little background how he got hired? Was he tested? Did he lie about experience or training? To me, there is a reason hidden that is good enough to let him go. IMO, you are waisting your time and $$ with him.

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716