Design? Sales? Management? Help!

[Mototank]

Hello All-
I've been reading Eng-Tips for the past year and have really enjoyed all the topics. There seems to be a lot of knowledge, experience, and "real world" advice to be tapped into here so I thought I would give it a shot.

I have my BSEE and have been in a electric motor drives design engineering role for the past year. I graduated Cal Poly in 2007, and have done everything from owning a successful landscape business in high school and college, to construction management and drafting for an electrical contractor post college.

I thoroughly enjoy a challenge at work, and like working with and managing people and projects. I feel really fortunate to have a job right now, and doing what I thought I wanted to do, design, but it turns out, I don't think it is where my natural talents lie. I have always been a McGyver type, able to come up with something that will work in a pinch etc, and that is probably why I have always seen engineering as a career path. However, after trying to do design over the past year, I just feel like I am maybe not best suited for that level of detail, and maybe would be better off in sales, application engineering, management, or something else. The problem is, I have no idea how to break out of where I am right now.

Basically, I am looking for any advice for where people might see a person who is able to understand to pretty decent detail the technical side of things, is able to communicate with both customers and other employees, can multitask, and knows how to delegate responsibilities, but maybe isn't the best with component level design.

I have always seen myself in management, but obviously, with a year of true EE experience underneath me that seems a bit far fetched. Do I stick it out and work my way up, or look at possibly trying to go the sales route and then back towards the technical management side. I am 27, with almost no obligations besides some minimal financial ones, so I am ready and willing to work my butt off to get ahead and get going, but am struggling to do that with my current situation. I really like the company I am with, and believe in their product, and so an internal move would be my "ideal" method.

Thanks all for your help-

 

[SNORGY]

Mototank

Sounds to me like you have the aptitude and balance for Project Engineering / Project Coordination / Project Management. Basically, in that role, you can develop enough technical knowledge and adeptness to understand problems and issues at an intelligent level, but you might either lack or not need / want to deal with the minutiae required towards ultimately solving them.

Good coordinators and managers with good people skills are just as valuable to engineering projects as are the technical personnel. There is formal training towards project management. I would pursue something like that.

But definitely not an MBA.

Not that I am in any way bitter.


Regards,

SNORGY.

 

[Mototank]

Thanks Snorgy!

I have looked into the MBA route, but have been convinced out of it.
I then was looking at a Masters of Engineering Management, but just have a tough time justifying the $$ for more education when most seem to recommend against it and say I should just get the experience in the real world. Can you suggest any other "training" that may not be a full masters degree? I know some offer certificates that are less intense, but are they worth it.

My biggest problem, is that I worry that one of these days the company I am with will realize that I am not as good as they need me to be in the design area, so I want to be prepared to say "well I really think I am more qualified for this..."

It is a newer startup (10yrs or so) and is doing very well. On the same note, many of the people were head-hunted and a little older, and most likely moving towards retirement. I am not sure they would have that project management position right now, but will in the future, so how do I buy my time until then without stepping on any toes but also without getting let go?

As a side note, I have my 1 yr review coming up, and I want to be prepared to express my desire to keep doing my best, but also want to be able to be honest when asked how it's going and where I see it going.

Thanks again for your quick and helpful response.

 

[FACS]

Check with the company you work for, and see what they might be able to do for you. You may find that they will support an MBA program, which would be best suited for your move into management.

Why anyone would "convince" you out of an MBA is beyond me, it's the best way to understand why business managers do what they do.

If you really want to go into sales then see what your company has to offer in that area. Having a technical background is the first requirement, and you may find they are actually looking for people like you. Sales is a personality game, do you have the personality?

Project management is taught in Business school so the MBA may still be the best place to go to open up the doors, and see what you are interested in.

The thing about certificates, is that they don't hold much value in the future. I have quite a few certificates, and I never once mentioned them on a resume, I don't even remember what they are. A formal MBA goes with you, and opens up a lot more doors.

Charlie

http://www.facsco.com

 

[Mototank]

Facs-

I guess what I meant by convince me out, was that it has been said to me over and over that it isn't worth the $$. My employer does have some tuition reimbursement, but it isn't much is the problem.

I am definitely not a complete salesman, in that while I feel I can sell, I won't try to get a sale by lying or fudging the truth. However, that may not be critical in our company, as we are higher end and if something doesn't work, we just tarnish our reputation.

I have been trying to talk to a few different people within the company that may have insight, I am just worried that if I am not careful, they will see that I am not fully dedicated to my current position, but also aren't ready to move me which may equal "goodbye". I would hope that wouldn't be the case, but I guess you never know.

Thanks for your input Facs!

 

[SNORGY]

Mototank:

This (attached link) is what most folks that I know pursue in your situation.

I would be cautious with MBAs. The "good" MBA-holders that I know are also good engineers with an appreciation for the value of engineering; accepting that it is indeed a cost as well as a revenue.

Conversely, the "not-so-good" MBA-holders that I know are those who don't give a rat's behind about engineering and are prepared to do as little of it as possible in order to minimize costs and, by their line of reasoning, improve the engineering business. Those types of "MBAs" are what I more commonly call "wrong". They have no place in engineering. Engineers, meanwhile, have a difficult time respecting / accepting them.

If you plan to "lead" engineers, make sure you understand the mindset and bias of your "followers', or you will not enjoy it.



Regards,

SNORGY.

 

[FACS]

It's good to be cautious.
I remember when I approached the owners of a company I was working for about an MBA, they were very receptive, and saw it as ambitious. I was promoted several times into management before I even graduated. After I did graduate, I was made a Director, and moved up continuously until I eventually owned my own business. So don't be afraid to appear to want more.

Never ever listen to anyone that tells you not to do something. It's ok to get advice, but it's best to set your own path, and move along it slow but sure.

Since you like where you are, and you want an internal move, go talk to someone about it. You are not going to be looked down upon. Tell someone that you want to get out and meet customers more; to get to know what they want and need. As an engineer, it's important to get out and understand them. Once you get out there, you may just melt into a sales or support role. Applications engineering can be the first step.

Make your own job.

Get to know the existing sales guys, develop a relationship with them. maybe one day, you will be asked to tag along. If you want to do something else, then just slowly start doing it.

I remember the day I decided to be dumb and just do things without knowing anything. I saw a guy make a million dollars selling stupid necklaces on a board walk. I asked him how he got started, and he told me that he just did it one day; because no one told him not to. He asked his dad for money, bought some necklaces and sold them at a 4th of July gathering in the park. He was suppose to have a permit, but no one told him that. He kept doing it, and eventually had his own Kiosk. When his dad found out what he was doing, he just laughed. The guy made a million dollars from party necklaces, and that's all he does now. I'm sure if you told someone you were thinking of selling party necklaces, they would talk you right out of it.

So I just started doing things I wanted to do. I didn't even tell people what I was doing because I knew they would try to talk me out of it. My mom told me not to buy my business when someone told her I was turning down a job offer to buy it. The accountant I hired to evaluate the business even told me not to buy it. I fired her.

That was 6-years ago and everything is better than it ever was.

Do what you want, and ask the people at work to help you.

In 10 years, you will be 37-years old. Do you want to be 37 with or without?

With or without what? you ask? That's up to you, buddy.




Charlie

http://www.facsco.com

 

[Mototank]

Well played FACS-
I definitely understand what you are saying and know deep down I just need to do what it is a want to do, and if I have the hard work and dedication, it will work out. I used to have this mentality when I was younger and had my business, but then college came as well as a "career path", and every time I consider making a move, I second guess myself because I don't want to screw up the opportunity currently given to me.

Thanks for the advice, and for the reassurance!

On that note, if I decide to consider a more advanced management degree, any advice between MBA, MEM, or PMP? I don't want to pigeon hole myself, but I also don't want to be overly broad if it makes more sense to do something closer to a MEM...

 

[lacajun]

What is life w/out risk? If you don't risk making your ultimate desires known to your present employer, you'll never know their response and desire to help you. I wouldn't frame it with "I'm not the best designer" because that may not be their perception. If you were performing below their expectations and it's a high end product, they probably would have trained you further or talked with you about your deficiencies.

There are a lot of areas you can try. My brother-in-law did detail design for a number of years but wanted to move on. He got dual masters in marketing and business then moved into product development and product management and other areas.

W. Edwards Deming was an EE but got graduate degrees in math and mathematical physics then he moved into quality work in Japan applying some stuff he learned from Shewhart about statistical process control and control charts. Analyzing and correcting processes is interesting work.

The PMP is a certificate and not as recognized as a master's program. Most of the PMs, Project Managers, I know or have worked for/with are mechanicals and a few have been civils. Not one has been an EE but that could have been industry related.

I don't know how well recognized and accepted the MEM is compared to the MBA. An engineer I worked with returned for the MBA and now he's doing more system work in the banking industry. He wouldn't be there with the MEM. Don't get a certificate in lieu of the MBA. I have a technical master's and it does carry more weight than a certificate.

Don't be afraid of screwing up and don't get caught up in paralysis analysis. Determine what you want to do with your life? How do you want to spend your time? Tomorrow morning at 10A, what do you want to be doing and who do you want to be doing it with? Who do you want in your network of people? Do you want to be one making things happen or do you want to be one doing what they're told?

I've never wanted one year of experience repeated forty or fifty times. I would shoot myself. There isn't anything wrong with that and for those who do, I applaud them and say we need them. It wasn't appealing to me. I wanted to continue learning and exploring life.

And, most sales people I know are very, very honest. If you are going to be successful at sales, you have to be honest. Otherwise, you lose customers. And, you'll lose them quickly if they figure out you deliberately lied to them. And, they will tell others, too, thereby costing you more business.

 

[Mototank]

Thank you all for your responses.

I think at this point I am going to hunker down and really think about what route I want to take at this point and bring that to my managers attention during my review.

I truly do like being the "mover and shaker" and making things happen, but also want to be able to do it with some credibility and having so much needed experience on my side to back me up.

Very insightful responses and I truly appreciate your time. Thanks again!

 

[Mototank]

So-
I have a follow up to this now. I had my one year review in July, and to my surprise my manager almost spoke for me about one day moving out of the design world into something that might be able to take advantage of some of my talents more fully.
Then the other day, I was briefly talking with our head of sales and marketing, and he mentioned he had a BSEE and went to work for a company right out of school that gave him experience for 6 months or so in several different areas from design to technical sales, and went on from there.
Our company is right now looking for someone to be a regional sales manager. They are looking for a BSEE or BSME with 5 years sales experience within our market and 3 years leadership experience. The position has been open for several months now and I have wanted to talk to him about how I might be able to break into sales, or at least test it out somehow, and have them test me out.
I know I am not experienced enough to be a sales manager at this point, but I have a question that I have never been able to get a good answer for, or give for that matter, ever. How does one get that first job that allows them to get that five years experience when a company, like ours, doesn't really have a spot for a "beginner"?...or am I pretty much screwed and should just forget about the idea of being in sales, at least with this company?

Thanks again for all your helpful responses!

 

[SNORGY]

Just go for it.

Regards,

SNORGY.

 

[lacajun]

Try it and see if you like it. It's worth a try.

A lot of companies have shed training programs. I'm not sure what's out there now.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[TheTick]

If you have to ask, the answer is NOT DESIGN. All the good designers are in design because they love to design.

 

[Mototank]

Thank you all again for your help.
I should have been more clear on my follow up post, as I am aware design probably isn't my best career path, but I was more curious as to how to break into another field, such as sales, that many times requires experience. However, I was able to catch our head of sales yesterday and we chatted for a bit and it seems that he is interested in considering me for an upcoming applications engineering position, so I guess that is a start!

Thanks again to all for your help!