Did I Ruin My Career? 25

[dktoao]

So my story:

I graduated with a BSME about 4 years ago during the worst part of the slump into the "great resession". At this time I was offered a job with a small company who payed me $40k per year, which I took. At the time I didn't care about the pitiful salary because I wanted to gain experience and I was absolutely broke and didn't want to move back in with mom. I should have seen the salary as a warning sign because 2 years later I was making $46k, travelling 75% and not making anything in the way of compensation for the travel or overtime I was working. I decided to quit and I decided that I wanted to travel a bit before I started looking for work again because, you know, YOLO. I gave my boss a full 2 months of notice, when 2 months arrived my boss begged me to stay on just a bit longer, and I told him no. I don't think he took this very well and I couldn't have cared less at the time.

My intention was to just travel for a little while, 3 months around the U.S., 1.5 months in Asia and then back to work. Of course, after the 4.5 months I was the happiest I had ever been in my life and decided to do a working holiday in Australia for the next year. In Australia I worked for 5 months in a factory before finding a job in Oil and Gas doing data analysis and data entry. When my visa was about to expire this company really wanted to keep me on and offered me sponsorship to stay and work in Australia. I turned them down because they didn't offer me a wage that was on par with the median wage for an engineer with a few years of experience in Australia (which is around $80k by my reckoning) and I didn't want to stay that far away from my family.

So now the dilema, I have been back in the U.S. looking for work for about 3 months and I have had a lot of interviews but nothing has panned out yet. I think that my lack of success is mostly due to the fact that my resume now looks like swiss cheese with all kinds of different, unrelated experience on it. Usually the first question I get in an interview is usually something like "Why should we believe that you are ready to settle down and get serious about your career?" The second problem is that I don't have the best references, I have one glowing reference from the factory that I worked in and the other two are probably luke warm at best, likely not so good. I have provided secondary references to co-workers that I got along well with but I think these aren't nearly as good using my direct supervisor. The third problem is that I have been very picky in the jobs that I apply for because I don't want just another 6 month stint on my resume with a woeful tale to tell, I want a solid job with a solid company so I am not temped to next go do a working holiday in New Zealand to the further detriment of my engineering career.

Is telling a prospective employer all of this in a cover letter going to make me look like a whiny immature man-child? Should I lower my expectations and just find a job that is unsatisfying? I feel like I have really put myself in-between a rock and a hard place here. Any suggestions on what to do?

Anyone have any advice? What is the best course to get back on the engineering train?

Thanks in advance!

 

[ash9144]

I would advise first that you determine the answer to the question you get asked.

"Why should we believe that you are ready to settle down and get serious about your career?"

I think when you can answer that question completely and honestly you will find what you are looking for.

 

[IRstuff]

So, yeah, the fact that you've been to "lots" of interviews and still can't answer, "Why should we believe that you are ready to settle down and get serious about your career?" is sadly telling, as is your thought process, "so I am not temped to next go do a working holiday in New Zealand to the further detriment of my engineering career."

It's good that you recognize the problem, but the fact of the matter is that you appear to have a wanderlust, since you seem to be so concerned by

All of this is NOT fodder for cover letters. The fact that you got interviews proves that people are willing to suspend disbelief says that your concept for the cover letter is unnecessary. Assuming that you really do want to settle down, then getting your dues paid, one way or another, is required, and if that means that you need to accept a less than ideal job, that's the cost of bailing for a year+. As for "solid" job, I wouldn't hold my breath anyway; there are no guarantees for job stability.

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[IRstuff]

and yeah, I have a bias against job hoppers, since it's never clear whether someone with that kind of history will settle down, ever. Why hire someone who will bail at the slightest hint of difficulty or boredom when there are dozens of others, comparably qualified, that will stick with it?

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[JohnRBaker]

After reading something like this, I want to get down on my knees and thank God that the decisions I made have allowed me to remain fully employed doing what I not only love, but which has more then adequately provided for me and my family these past 42 years (46 if I include my co-op time while in school).

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[1gibson]

Maybe you could narrate your work experience with some bullet points, a cover letter could be a bit much. Change "worked in a factory" to "gained hands on manufacturing experience." Hopefully it was a machine shop or something. Even if it was a shipping warehouse, then maybe you have experience in freight, logistics, and inventory software. Any sort of factory experience should be relevant in one way or another. If you project that it was an irrelevant waste of time, then it certainly was.

In an interview, say you got the travelling out of your system and hope they believe you. Or, say you are willing to travel if the need arises. Not all engineers want to bounce around that much.

Don't give off the vibe that if the job isn't what you expected, you can always quit and move back in with your parents.

Be excited about the opportunity, not concerned it will suck.

Don't say YOLO.

 

[TheTick]

If your resume has as many misspellings as your post, might as well keep travelling.

 

[EQguys]

Did you talk to your first boss and express your concern about the low pay, the work related traveling and the no overtime pay ? If you didn't, then that is where the problem started. As people have rightfully asked "Why should we believe that you are ready to settle down and get serious about your career?", you should search for the answer yourself. Everybody pays their dues in the initial years when they are "trying to make/pursue" a career. Do not expect things to be given to you on a silver platter. You only get what you bargained for, and if you didn't bargain, well then start learning how to. And stop throwing slangs like YOLO.

 

[DRWeig]

Agree with everyone so far. Leaving a job to travel around for a while makes me think of a teenager who wants to take a year off of school because "you only live once," or, "you're only young once."

By the way, what does YOLO mean? I'm not good with acronyms and I don't feel like Googling that one right now. I prefer that the poster enlightens us all.

"Are you ready to settle down..." is a valid question.

At this time I was offered a job with a small company who payed me $40k per year, which I took. At the time I didn't care about the pitiful salary because I wanted to gain experience and I was absolutely broke and didn't want to move back in with mom. I should have seen the salary as a warning sign because 2 years later I was making $46k, travelling 75% and not making anything in the way of compensation for the travel or overtime I was working

I think you should evaluate your attitude about some other aspects of your story:

$40k is a "pitiful" salary for someone fresh out of school in a time of huge unemployment?
You got $6 in salary increases through two years of the Great Recession?
You didn't make anything for your travel or overtime? Not even a regular paycheck and some experience?

From 2008 to now, there have been many millions of people who would have done anything to have that job. Their kids are hungry, but all you feared was moving back in with mom. Are we entitled to fulfilling, high-paying jobs that fit our schedules when we're fresh out of school?

I better stop here. My blood pressure is getting out of whack.

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

 

[ornerynorsk]

Agree with other posters. "YOLO" is assumed, and will only give the impression of a non-committal attitude. You can still maintain that attitude in your life choices, vacations, etc, just don't throw it around too much in the over 40 crowd or to an interviewer or HR. It's still an applicant-rich situation in most areas, and they're going to scrutinize every off-hand comment and facial expression.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[Ron]

I wouldn't hire you because you can't figure out what the hell you want to do. You've had a couple of good opportunities but turned them down because they didn't fit your perfection mold. Keep looking...you won't find it.

 

[dktoao]

Thanks to some of you for the good advice. Thanks even to some of you for the abuse, it gives me a better idea of what goes on in the heads of the older engineering crowd when my smiling face plops down in the interview chair in front of them. I assure all of you that I have never used YOLO in a professional context, I apologize and I won't use it again on this board.

Cheers

 

[casseopeia]

I like 1gibson's recommendation on resume wording. That can make a huge difference. And maybe you could try to characterize the moving around in a different light, like following economic opportunities in a volatile environment. And I knew what YOLO meant, but acronyms like those don't go over well here. KWIM?


If you are offended by the things I say, imagine the stuff I hold back.

 

[TheTick]

The last thing a manager filling a position wants in his stable is a slacker. They've seen plenty and prefer to avoid them.

Make absolutely no mention of YOLO-type finding-yourself fluffery. Stick to what counts: where you worked and what you accomplished, and what you hope to accomplish for your prospective employer. Present yourself as someone looking forward to building a career, not just someone looking for the next "experience".

p.s. I was 100% serious about the spelling. I'm 98% certain you proofread your resume better than you typed your post. However, many managers will pitch a resume for simple mistakes because it shows lack of attention to detail.

 

[TenPenny]

"The third problem is that I have been very picky in the jobs that I apply for"

I'd say that's not the third problem.

 

[FastMouse]

> I want a solid job with a solid company so I am not temped to next go do a working holiday in New Zealand

Eh? You want your job to be nicer than a vacation? Not going to happen! My 2 cents worth is if you're any good at what you do, and if you can't really convince anyone that you're around for the long haul, then I'd say:

wanderlust + decent skill set = jobshopper.

Some plusses & some minuses associated with jobshopping and it's not for everyone, but a whole bunch of people make an okay living that way.

As for the future, well, some managers like to see agency or freelance experience on a CV and others don't. But either way, it's better than no experience.

Only snag that I see is that you have circa 2.5 years of experience. Is that enough to get you in the door as a jobshopper? Perhaps, but it's not a dead cert.

 

[1gibson]

You do seem pretty sharp to recognize that all this abuse will benefit you; it is exactly what the interviewers will be thinking (and to be fair, you asked for it!) Having people pick at you and not get too bothered about it is a skill *almost* worth putting on a resume. It will be part of your interaction with the interviewer, so make sure it comes off as a positive attitude, and not ambivalence.

All things considered, if I was sitting across the table from you I feel like I would get the impression you just didn't give a #%@&. Be aware of that and try to make sure it doesn't happen.

With respect to the slang and grammar, did you play any sports as a kid? Remember your coach telling you to "practice like it was a game" or else you would develop bad habits? You won't always have time to go back through and cross your T's, dot your I's. It is 8 PM on a Friday and you need to get a report sent out before you leave, can you trust the first thing you fling onto the keyboard?

 

[dktoao]

Thanks again,

I guess just to clarify, I really do desire to settle down in my home city, I really love it here and with my first job I did intend to make a career of it before things went south. Granted, I didn't tell the entire story of what happened at my first job but if you think that I had it good there I can give you the contact information for my former boss, they are constantly hiring like crazy to try and fill positions vacated due to attrition, I know because they constantly have new employees pop in and out on LinkedIn.

As for settling down, I really do want to settle down so I can meet a nice girl and become involved in a community in a meaningful long-term way, but at the same time I do not regret even a small amount the life experience that travelling has afforded me. I have seen, experienced and done things that most people will only see pictures and read stories about, and if it means I have to settle for a factory job for the rest of my life then it was still worth it twice over. But now I do think I got it out of my system. I can get my travel jollies while working and the desire for stability is really gnawing at me right now.

After looking at some of the advice and looking back, I do think that I come off quite jaded at job interviews, and it is something I need to examine about my personality. I can't help but ask if un-paid time off and telecommuting are possible, not because I require that a job have these things but because it is part of my determination of whether a company has a "work ourselves to death, because that's what it takes" attitude which I wholeheartedly disagree with. If that means that I am not cut out for engineering then so be it, I am not cut out for engineering, I can get my techie jollies by joining a hackerspace community like I did when I was in Australia.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for the fantastic advice, I think all of this has really given me some perspective, even the abuse. I am thinking that I just need to explore work opportunities outside of engineering, I really think that better working cultures exist in different fields. However I get one parting shot so I am going to take it, my advice to the angry people on this thread would be to live a little, inject a non-work related, non-serious activities into your life because stress, a negative attitude and heart disease will kill faster than an empty wallet.

Cheers

 

[TheTick]

However I get one parting shot so I am going to take it, my advice to the angry people on this thread would be to live a little, inject a non-work related, non-serious activities into your life because stress, a negative attitude and heart disease will kill faster than an empty wallet.

Well, if that doesn't merit a hale and hearty "p!$$ 0ff", I don't know what does. Maybe I'm just cranky from being out to late with the band last night. I know enough about most of the people here to know that you are completely off-base with your comment.

 

[IRstuff]

Not anger, just disappointment...

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