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Did the Romans have engineers? 3
- Thread starter icelad
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Structural
There's no question that the Romans had a fair grasp advanced concepts. The reason you rarely read about Roman "Engineers" has more to do with the licensing boards of the time. Faced with having to chisel their P.E. number (in roman numerals, remember) on each design, professional registration quickly fell out of favor.
SlideRuleEra
Structural
The premiere of the History Channel's "Rome, Engineering an Empire" is on September 5
Some 20 or so years ago, I was in Zaragosa Spain and was shown a bridge that the romans built that was carrying modern day traffic.
I had to wonder if any of the bridges built today would be carrying traffic in 100 years, much less 2000 years.
rmw
I had to wonder if any of the bridges built today would be carrying traffic in 100 years, much less 2000 years.
rmw
hyposmurf
Electrical
- Mar 25, 2004
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How about to relate engineering with ingenious or the use of INGENIO , spanish word , babelfish translate it as TALENT.????
Maybe talent to build things needs more talent that math, you coul get a math to calc your facts , but is rare to get a math to build things.
Maybe talent to build things needs more talent that math, you coul get a math to calc your facts , but is rare to get a math to build things.
What about organizational and project engineering skills required in such huge and time-lasting projects as the building of cathedrals, bridges, pyramids...
How did ancient "engineers" coordinate workers, mobilize resources, etc. ?
I would be interested if anyone had references about the history of project engineering.
How did ancient "engineers" coordinate workers, mobilize resources, etc. ?
I would be interested if anyone had references about the history of project engineering.
If you have ever been to the Pantheon in Rome, you would have absolutely no doubt in their engineering skills. This is NOT the work of an artist who happened to make something that didn't collapse, this is the work of an Engineer with an artistic bent.
I'm surprised at all of the focus on structural engineering here. How about their use of piping, fittings and valves?
More proof of their engineering skills is in the area of warfare machinery. You don't build things like this by artistic trial and error!
The calculations we use today to determine projectile trajectories are all based upon the original works of Roman artillery engineers, some of them little changed. In fact Vitruvius, who wrote the Ten Books of Architecture which are the basis for all western architecture since, was first an artillery engineer for the Roman Army.
And as to math skills, how about the fact that the Romans actually invented the Abacus in a portable format, derived from the Phoenician or Babylonian sand pile calculators used by merchants (abak was the Phoenician word for sand). To me, that came as a result of the Romans needing to use math in places other than the market, i.e. the battle field or the engineer's office.
Roman's had engineers. They did not have the cumulative wealth of knowledge that we enjoy today, but in my mind that makes some of their accomplishments all that much more astounding.
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I'm surprised at all of the focus on structural engineering here. How about their use of piping, fittings and valves?
More proof of their engineering skills is in the area of warfare machinery. You don't build things like this by artistic trial and error!
The calculations we use today to determine projectile trajectories are all based upon the original works of Roman artillery engineers, some of them little changed. In fact Vitruvius, who wrote the Ten Books of Architecture which are the basis for all western architecture since, was first an artillery engineer for the Roman Army.
And as to math skills, how about the fact that the Romans actually invented the Abacus in a portable format, derived from the Phoenician or Babylonian sand pile calculators used by merchants (abak was the Phoenician word for sand). To me, that came as a result of the Romans needing to use math in places other than the market, i.e. the battle field or the engineer's office.
Roman's had engineers. They did not have the cumulative wealth of knowledge that we enjoy today, but in my mind that makes some of their accomplishments all that much more astounding.
"Our virtues and our failings are inseparable, like force and matter. When they separate, man is no more." Nikola Tesla
Read the Eng-Tips Site Policies at faq731-376
Member, [blue]P[sup]3[/sup][/blue]There is no doubt on the fact that Romans had engineers. When the Romans conquered the Greek cities, they absorbed the Greeks' advanced geometry and knowhow.
About the abacus, I was all the time under the impression that its origin was traced to the chinese of about 5000 years BC...
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.Google the history of the abacus. By most accounts it was a Roman adaptation of earlier non-portable technology from Greece or even Phoenicia before that, then adopted by the Chinese later, around 1200AD by recorded accounts, but as early as 166AD. Abacus history link I know there are some websites that claim it is as old as you say, but they don't appear to ofer any documentation to that efect. Wikipedia tends to back up what I had read, but mentions a Babylonian system that may have predated the Phoenician.
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Member, [blue]P[sup]3[/sup][/blue]Here is a site that offers some resolution to the origin of the abacus.
This is Ryerson University, in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
This site makes a distinction between the ancient counting boards, and the "abacus" the Chinese invented.
"The difference between a counting board and an abacus."
It is important to distinguish the early abacuses (or abaci) known as counting boards from the modern abaci. The counting board is a piece of wood, stone or metal with carved grooves or painted lines between which beads, pebbles or metal discs were moved. The abacus is a device, usually of wood (plastic, in recent times), having a frame that holds rods with freely-sliding beads mounted on them.
Both the abacus and the counting board are mechanical aids used for counting; they are not calculators in the sense we use the word today. The person operating the abacus performs calculations in their head and uses the abacus as a physical aid to keep track of the sums, the carrys, etc."
The oldest surviving counting board is the Salamis tablet (originally thought to be a gaming board), used by the Babylonians circa 300 B.C., discovered in 1846 on the island of Salamis. There are references to them going back much further of course.
The abacus as we know it today, appeared (was chronicled) circa 1200 A.D. in China.
One can argue that the two are related, or not. Often, history has shown that inventions arise independently in mulitple times and places. Historians, seems to want to only give credit to one (usually their own).
This is Ryerson University, in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
This site makes a distinction between the ancient counting boards, and the "abacus" the Chinese invented.
"The difference between a counting board and an abacus."
It is important to distinguish the early abacuses (or abaci) known as counting boards from the modern abaci. The counting board is a piece of wood, stone or metal with carved grooves or painted lines between which beads, pebbles or metal discs were moved. The abacus is a device, usually of wood (plastic, in recent times), having a frame that holds rods with freely-sliding beads mounted on them.
Both the abacus and the counting board are mechanical aids used for counting; they are not calculators in the sense we use the word today. The person operating the abacus performs calculations in their head and uses the abacus as a physical aid to keep track of the sums, the carrys, etc."
The oldest surviving counting board is the Salamis tablet (originally thought to be a gaming board), used by the Babylonians circa 300 B.C., discovered in 1846 on the island of Salamis. There are references to them going back much further of course.
The abacus as we know it today, appeared (was chronicled) circa 1200 A.D. in China.
One can argue that the two are related, or not. Often, history has shown that inventions arise independently in mulitple times and places. Historians, seems to want to only give credit to one (usually their own).
I think 25362 Chemical said it best that Rome adsorbed Greek engineering.
The Greeks invented the railway somewhere in the 6th century BC. The Diolkus of Corinth, moved ships on a "railway" of limestone, which may be why the gauge of UK track is still 3 cubits. (US rail is 1/8th inch narrower to round off the numbers). The system fell into disuse by 90AD and was forgotten until C14th in Europe when miners pushed ore to the surface on rail carts.
The Greeks invented the railway somewhere in the 6th century BC. The Diolkus of Corinth, moved ships on a "railway" of limestone, which may be why the gauge of UK track is still 3 cubits. (US rail is 1/8th inch narrower to round off the numbers). The system fell into disuse by 90AD and was forgotten until C14th in Europe when miners pushed ore to the surface on rail carts.
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