Digital Signature and PE Seal 2

[transmissiontowers]

I don't have to stamp things very often since I work for a public utility in Texas. This week I had to write a letter that had to be sealed to a City. The guy that wanted it to give to the City needed it immediately. I usually do the letter, use my embosser stamp and seal several copies and give one to the person that wanted it.

Since there was a rush, I used my ink seal and scanned the letter into a PDF and eMailed the PDF to the guy. I wanted to learn more about the correct procedure and looked in the Texas PE board web page and they allow a digital seal if it is digitally signed. I looked at Adobe professional that I use and there is a digital signature feature although I have never used it.

Sorry for the long explanation, but has anyone used a JPG of their seal in a MS Word letter and done a digital signature? If you have, what steps are needed?

I ran across a place that will sell a rubber stamp and provide a JPG and TIFF of your seal for use on electronic files.

_____________________________________
I have been called "A storehouse of worthless information" many times.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Ron,

I'm married now, so that's a distant memory ;-)

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[Murec]

I just got an email from someone who "installed steaks in the ground to show the affected area".
I am going to inspect the area at lunch time.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

See if there's any liquor at the construction re-bar...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[Ron]

Dan...me, too! 29 years....I know of what you speak!!
That's a great idea/name for a bar!! Let's franchise that one!

 

[transmissiontowers]

I knew Engineers could be fun!! This thread started about a PE seal question, drifted to improper/proper English and our pet peeves, then onto getting laid and the distant memories of old married guys.

You guys are a fun group.

_____________________________________
I have been called "A storehouse of worthless information" many times.

 

[beej67]

I just got around to looking up the rules for Georgia last night.

http://rules.sos.state.ga.us/docs/180/12/02.pdf

(8) Documents that are electronically transmitted shall have the computer-generated seal removed from the original file. All electronically transmitted documents shall have
displayed, in lieu of the seal, signature and date , the following statements , “The original of this document was sealed and signed by {registrant’s printed name and registration number} on {date of signature}.” And in bold lettering, “THIS REPRODUCTION IS NOT A CERTIFIED DOCUMENT.”

I think every state is approaching this a little differently nowadays.



Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[SMIAH]

We use this here (Canada):

http://www.notarius.com/en/digital_center.html

Supposedly perfect...

 

[Ron]

TT...who ya callin' old?

 

[cvg]

I would think it would be nearly impossible to enforce a rule like Georgia's. Virtually anybody could scan to pdf and email a copy of any stamped and signed document (without removing the seal or adding the disclaimer). The state board would be powerless to stop them and the Engineer of Record may never know it was done. If a rule can't be enforced, than what's the point?

 

[beej67]

If a rule can't be enforced, than what's the point?

Well I would never bad mouth my own state board of course, but perhaps I can give you an anecdote?

When I got my first job out of undergrad in the late 90s, the first PE I worked under was doing a residential subdivision design. In order to adhere to recent changes in the local municipal codes, he was required to submit a "preliminary plat" for the subdivision, before he could submit engineering drawings for review. This "preliminary plat" had to show bearings and distances like a "real" plat, and a benchmark, etc, but was pure fantasy based only on available survey information, and not on any sort of field work. No pins were set, it was all just CAD, and subject to change based on the design process. And the municipality required it be submitted by (important) the engineer of record.

He was called down to Macon three years later and put through some sort of Board Tribunal because he stamped it as a PE and wasn't a registered Land Surveyor. Spent the better part of three days trying to explain to them that it was a "preliminary plat," and that a land surveyor wasn't involved because there was nothing to survey. They tried to tell him that it didn't matter, according to their rules. It said "plat" so he violated the law by stamping it. He eventually got off the hook without further board action, but he still lost what could have been billable time to the ordeal.



Now we can argue whether or not Board Rules are enforceable, but I'd rather not run the risk of giving them something to do on a Wednesday through Friday if they end up bored a couple of months from now and get a PDF with my name on it. I'll follow the rules.



Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[cvg]

beej
I guess the better point to make would be why make a rule that a)doesn't solve a problem and b)is a burden to us rule-abiding engineers?

By the way, in the states I practice in - an engineer can stamp a plat and so can an RLS.

I guess I can bad mouth your board...

 

[beej67]

Mine is not to question why.



Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[kipfoot]

I use a program called pdf factory. It has a feature that is intended to be used to add a letterhead to a document that I also use to add the image of a seal and signature to the pdf. Then I add the security option that graphics can't be copied from the document.

So someone stealing my seal would have to do it the old fashioned way, with scissors and a scanner.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Then I add the security option that graphics can't be copied from the document.

So someone stealing my seal would have to do it the old fashioned way, with scissors and a scanner.

Nahhhh... I'd zoom in on what I want, hit the print screen key, which copies it to the clipboard, then paste it into whatever graphics program I want. Identity stolen.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[photoengineer]

My view is that anybody can create a stamp with my name on it and license number. This information is public record and it would be easy to do.

So - I don't use any special method to prevent my stamp from being copied electronically. And, I don't view my stamp as a security measure on a document. Rather, it's simply stating that I am approving the report as a professional engineer as opposed to approving it as a non-engineer.

I treat it different than a notary who notarizes a signature, for example.