Digital Signature 2

[structuralaggie]

Does anyone know anything about digital signatures? Texas does not allow a scanned image of a signed seal, but it will allow a digital signature that will be removed if the electronic file is altered. The last set of drawings I issued, I had them printed out, then I signed them, and then scanned them back to pdf. The quality of the drawings wasn't that good due to the scanning. Not to mention much more work was involved. Can anyone help?

 

[COEngineeer]

If you do want to put a seal w/ signature on autocad, just click insert then pick OLE object, then pick from file. First you need to scan your seal and signature and save it as JPEG. Insert that OLE object on your title block. I am also interested w/ digital signature. We just tried one last week. Sometimes we need to send a drawing somewhere immediately. It will be nice if we can just send the file to a kinkos somewhere and print them out there (signed).

 

[structuralaggie]

Some states allow you to scan in a signed copy of your seal, but Texas specifically says not to do that (I called them to make sure). I am looking into adding a signature in Adobe, but I am not sure how it is going to turn out or how reliable it is going to be. The basic idea is that if the pdf is modified, then the signature will disappear. You also are the only one who will be able to add your signature. If I can get this to work, I will do this for all states, even those that don't require it. I don't like the idea of my signed seal floating around in Autocad.

Adobe seems to be the only program that can make this work. Any suggestions?

 

[COEngineeer]

There is a place on adobe to add a custom stamp. I bet you can add a scanned image of your seal and signature. If you want it to disappear if modified then I dont know.

BTW, what I meant by sending the stamped file to kinkos was sending it as plot file or PDF. So the signed seal wont be floating around in AutoCAD.

 

[structuralaggie]

Maybe we are not talking about the same thing. The way I have seen it done before is to attach a signed copy of a seal in autocad, then make a pdf. Inevitably, the file gets updated and printed later, and there is the same seal on it again. I think that is what this board rule is trying to head off.

The scanned image in adobe might work. I am going to work on it.

 

[CJJS]

Ohio does not allow scanned signatures on seals either. They are working on developing a method to encrypt the digital seal with signature, such that if the original document were altered, the seal will be deleted automatically. Let us know if pdf drawings have that capabiity.

 

[structuralaggie]

I just emailed the Texas board with my best stab at it. I will see what they say.

 

[Ron]

A scanned image of your signature and seal is not an electronic signature. An electronic signature is a unique encryption algorithm that protects the entire document under its placement. For instance, if you prepare an Adobe pdf file and sign it digitally, you have created a means by which a change in the file by someone else will cause the signature to be void and it will not verify.

Many states allow electronic signatures, but only if they comply with accepted encryption techniques that allow the signer (and others) to know if (a) the document is the original; and (b) if it has been changed or modified since it was digitally signed.

 

[jdonville]

All,

See the Banjo plug-in for Adobe Acrobat

http://www.linetype.com/products/banjo/index.htm

I've been wanting to do this myself, but the restrictions on the Banjo license seem a bit cumbersome compared to a physical seal or stamp. Still,....it may be just what some of you are looking for.

Jeff

 

[structuralaggie]

jdonville: Thanks for the lead. I used it and it worked great. Before I had to print, sign and then re-scan so I could upload them to our clients site for the contractor to print out. The banjo plug in allows the electronic signature to be compliant with the Texas board rules.

 

[COEngineeer]

Hmm.. i might have to check it out also.

 

[archeng59]

thanks for the info, jdonville. Oklahoma does not yet allow digital signatures. but it's good to know about products that allow secure digital signatures anyway.

 

[jdonville]

All,

Ohio should permit electronic seals beginning later this year. Supposedly, the provision was included in a capital improvement budget bill passed shortly before the recent change in state administration.

Jeff

 

[structuralaggie]

The banjo plug does everything it is supposed to. The only problem is who ever is plotting out the files on paper has to verify your signature before plotting. It is simple, but I have had trouble with a local reprographic place that doesn't want to spend 5 minutes to do it. I ended up having to make a copy digitally from the pdf, which really negated the whole point of the digital signature because it is no longer verifiable. I just wrote it was a copy of the original below my seal.

At any rate, technology is getting there. Just got to work out the kinks.

 

[jdonville]

One of the licensing problems I have with Banjo is that it gets tied to a particular CPU (see the help documentation). This means that the plug-in, in effect, needs to be the property of the engineer's employer, and can only be used on one particular machine (per license).

I would love to see an implementation (even non-Banjo) where the software license is tied to a physical token (such as a hardware key) or is available as a site license to provide greater flexibility of use.

There are other issues I have with Banjo, including the management of private keys, which appear to currently reside on the computer where a specific copy of Banjo is licensed.

I would prefer that private keys be able to reside on a portable physical token, and be encrypted using a strong encryption method, with the use of strong passwords enforced.

Jeff

 

[JAE]

So jdonville....what other options are out there besides Banjo?

 

[jdonville]

JAE,

Not many, from what I understand.

Part of my rant above has to do with my lack of understanding of how Windows (XP in particular) and Acrobat store and protect digital certificates that contain private key information. I apologize to everyone for giving the impression that I have specific knowledge of a problem with Banjo in this regard. (I may have gotten a bit carried away in my previous post, and be overly paranoid on this point.)

To get back to your question, I did recently find a few other packages, but neither seemed as good a fit for 'plugging and chugging' as Banjo. (See "ApproveIt"

http://www.silanis.com

and "CoSign"

http://www.arx.com

)

Jeff

 

[structuralaggie]

Jdonville,

Banjo does get assigned to one computer, but you can transfer the license to a different computer. Since I am supposed to be the sole person in control of my signature (board rules), having it on my laptop seems to be best place for it anyway. My only complaint is coordinating with clients and reprographics companies to get drawings printed out. They have to verify my signature, which is easy but takes a little time and gets annoying to all parties involved.

 

[IFRs]

I believe that Adobe has built in electronic signatures. At lease my version (6.0) does. Document/Digital Signatures or File/Save as Certified Document. Never tried Banjo - I always use Adobe.

 

[structuralaggie]

I tried that first, but it isn't near as slick as the banjo plug in. Texas requires that (pasted from thier site):

(1) unique to the person using it.
(2) capable of verification.
(3) under the sole control of the person using it.
(4) linked to a document in such a manner that the electronic signature is invalidated if any data in the document are changed.

The banjo plug in does all of these. You might be able to get adobe to do these, but I think 2 and 4 will be tough. This is the problem I am dealing with though. Unless the person who has the file takes the time to do (2), (4) will happen. "Unverified" appears over my seal, which obviously won't get you any permits.