Digitally sign Structural drawing

[DoubleStud]

When you use digital signature from Adobe or Bluebeam, what do you typically do? Do you put your PE stamp blank without your signature or date and put this certificate next to it? Do you still add your signature on top of the stamp and add this next to it? Do you still add signature and date and put this next to it? What say you?

 

[driftLimiter]

I put an image of the stamp with signature. Then I date it normally. Then I throw the bluebeam verification signature mumbo jumbo somewhat overlapping the stamp.

 

[DoubleStud]

I put an image of the stamp with signature. Then I date it normally. Then I throw the bluebeam verification signature mumbo jumbo somewhat overlapping the stamp.

Interesting, I will see how that looks. Thanks.

 

[TLHS]

I don't have any mumbo jumbo. Mine's just a picture of my stamp with my signature on it, with a computer generated date. Basically, it looks like a wet stamped drawing but the date is typed. Everything else is contained in the digitial signature itself that's embedded in the drawing. Check what your regulator says though.

 

[haynewp]

States have different laws about digital signing and sealing and some even on how to transmit PDFs. It’s another nuisance similar to keeping up with different state continuing education requirements and renewal dates.

 

[XR250]

Our state requires 3rd party software verification. I don't know anyone who does that though. The building departments do not enforce that or even require that the document be digitally signed. If someone wants to commit fraud they will regardless of the digital seal.

 

[STpipe]

At least for us, which requires 3rd party software verification, the process is to put an image of the stamp and signature with automatic date stamp, and then digitally sign the document. The digital signature isn't a visual thing, it's an embedded code (not sure if this is the right word) into the PDF.

The digital signature can also be a visual thing, for example in reports I write, because as opposed to drawings, only one instance of the stamp will appear, so in that situation I opt to have the image of the signature appear in the document along with the digital signature (if that makes sense).

 

[Lomarandil]

Second vote for TLHS's system.

 

[TutArc]

Our state requires 3rd party software verification. I don't know anyone who does that though. The building departments do not enforce that or even require that the document be digitally signed. If someone wants to commit fraud they will regardless of the digital seal.

Interesting. In Fort Lauderdale, FL we've had project reviews halted/red-flagged due to the EOR not being up to date on their CE. The AHJ found out through checking the digital seal if I recall correctly, though I could very easily be wrong. I do know at least 2 local jurisdictions that currently check and have been for some time. Can't submit anything digitally without 3rd party verification. (Even the on-board signature from Adobe won't cut it, needs to be 3rd party ver.)

 

[Lutfi]

Florida has strict procedures for digital signing and sealing. We cannot rely on simply using digital signature in Acrobat or Bluebeam.

Hopefully the following link will help you:

Signing and Sealing Engineering Documents - Florida Board of Professional Engineers

fbpe.org

Lutfi

 

[STpipe]

I've also had colleagues have issues in FL for not having the proper digital signature with 3rd party verification.

 

[Lutfi]

Our state requires 3rd party software verification. I don't know anyone who does that though. The building departments do not enforce that or even require that the document be digitally signed. If someone wants to commit fraud they will regardless of the digital seal.

Are you serious? What state is that?

 

[Lutfi]

I've also had colleagues have issues in FL for not having the proper digital signature with 3rd party verification.

That is right. Florida has strict procedures, as it should be.

 

[XR250]

Is falsifying drawings that big of a thing to make all of us go thru this onerous task? I send out 5 or more sealed products a day. The additional time and cost to certify them adds up.

 

[lexpatrie]

Well.....

I mean, yeah. Potentially.

The Hotel Is 642 Feet Tall. Its ‘Architect’ Says He Never Saw the Plans. (Published 2022)

An architect lent his license to a New York City developer to approve buildings he didn’t design, according to an investigation by The New York Times.

www.nytimes.com

I wonder if the zeal doesn't have to do with engineers "disavowing" some sealed drawing if the Board starts asking questions. I've met a few engineers over the years who "never sign anything unless forced" even when it comes to deliverables for PERMIT.

Then again, (and this I've had trouble finding) but leaving your seal in an insecure location is a no-no.. I knew one engineer who carried the seals around in a locked briefcase. And I knew another guy who had them sitting in his office out in the open all in a box with the states clearly marked (for personal use, mind you).

If anybody knows any regs on leaving your seals unsecured, do let me know which state has specific rules on it. I've seen a lot of seal/signature combos sitting on computer networks where anybody can see them, or lurking as xrefs in the Autocad D size sheet template.

 

[XR250]

Anyone can buy a seal online without credentials. I certainly did.

 

[ChorasDen]

Well.....

I mean, yeah. Potentially.

The Hotel Is 642 Feet Tall. Its ‘Architect’ Says He Never Saw the Plans. (Published 2022)

An architect lent his license to a New York City developer to approve buildings he didn’t design, according to an investigation by The New York Times.

www.nytimes.com

I wonder if the zeal doesn't have to do with engineers "disavowing" some sealed drawing if the Board starts asking questions. I've met a few engineers over the years who "never sign anything unless forced" even when it comes to deliverables for PERMIT.

Then again, (and this I've had trouble finding) but leaving your seal in an insecure location is a no-no.. I knew one engineer who carried the seals around in a locked briefcase. And I knew another guy who had them sitting in his office out in the open all in a box with the states clearly marked (for personal use, mind you).

If anybody knows any regs on leaving your seals unsecured, do let me know which state has specific rules on it. I've seen a lot of seal/signature combos sitting on computer networks where anybody can see them, or lurking as xrefs in the Autocad D size sheet template.

For 12$ or something I can put a name and a license number on a rubber seal and get a stamp pad, no verification needed. For 20$ I can get a CAD file of the seal with the name and license number.

Most states have licensing information available to the public, so you can look up to see if a license is active and see if there are any enforcement actions taken against the licensee. It would take a person who wishes to commit fraud about 2min to find a licensed engineer in the state needed, pull their name and license number, and submit it to any number of online stores that produce physical and CAD stamps. Again, no verification for that order is needed. I have never understood some of the strict 3rd party verification licensing requirements that some states have implemented.

 

[TheDW]

For 12$ or something I can put a name and a license number on a rubber seal and get a stamp pad, no verification needed. For 20$ I can get a CAD file of the seal with the name and license number.

Most states have licensing information available to the public, so you can look up to see if a license is active and see if there are any enforcement actions taken against the licensee. It would take a person who wishes to commit fraud about 2min to find a licensed engineer in the state needed, pull their name and license number, and submit it to any number of online stores that produce physical and CAD stamps. Again, no verification for that order is needed. I have never understood some of the strict 3rd party verification licensing requirements that some states have implemented.

I'm with you. For my CAD seal I just modified the text of the cad file someone else had been using for 20 years

It would not take more than 5 minutes to draw a stamp in CAD, no $20 needed.

For such a red 'party of small government' state, Florida's government is way more involved than is necessary with this stuff, in my opinion

 

[jjl317]

Can someone who uses this third-party verification software provide a name/link for what they use?

 

[TheDW]

I went with identrust after reading some threads on here. They've got a few different levels of verification/cost but if you tell them you're just looking for the Florida PE licensure verification, someone pointed me to exactly what i needed