Disconcerting info on company found out. Interview very soon. 6

[mbpierce]

Long time reader. First time poster.


A little background: I've been looking for my first permanent job in a certain area of NC for a few months since graduating in May (BSME). I've got close to 2 years in co-op experience as a design engineer with a major outfit (who I'm still with on a temporary basis until I find permanent employment) and a fair amount of UG experience for an entry level prospect.


One of our marketing guys here deals a lot with a company that I'm scheduled to interview with on Monday. He actually made a trip to their facility yesterday and during a regular conversation with someone he mentioned his chat with myself about interviewing there. The other person informed him that there have been 8 engineers to quit in the last 2 months because of a new engineering manager and that the position that I'm interview for must be to replace some of those guys. And one thing that makes me believe so is there are 6 listings on Monster for different engineering positions with this company.


So my dilemma is that I can take a whole day off of work and just listen to what they have to say. Or just bow out now and not waste my time or theirs. I'm on the fence here, but leaning towards heading up there. I've really got nothing to lose but money out of the deal though.


Questions, comments, words of wisdom?

Thanks

 

[JDana]

Go to the interview, for practice if nothing else. There could be any number of reasons for mass exodus, maybe the new manager expects everyone to work and their old manager didn't.

 

[Eleceng01]

mbpierce,

If you do go, and I suggest that you do just for the interview experience, I would question the manager about why there are six positions on Monster (knowing that 8 engineers have quit in the last 2 months). You will gain valuable insight from his/her answer (BS or truth).

Good luck with your decision.

 

[DaveVikingPE]

Go to the interview. When you are asked if you have any questions about the firm, use that as your chance to ask about all the openings. Be positive about it; if you know anyone who's looking for a job you might tell the interviewer that's why you're curious about the number of openings.

 

[MadMango]

I agree with the others, go to the interview. Don't be accusatory or on the offensive when asking your questions about the company, but ask them. It's your future. People leave companies all the time for various reasons, I wouldn't makeup your mind based on 3rd party hearsay.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[TheTick]

Fair questions for you to ask:

"Is this a new position or am I replacing someone who left?"

"Why did the last person leave?"

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

Did the previous manager leave voluntarily or was he fired?

The new manager may have been brought in specifically to weed out the "dead wood" ... or he may have his own agenda. Some new managers will hire new people because they don't automatically get the level of respect and trust they feel they deserve from the existing employees.

Definitely, as the others suggest, got to the interview to gain experience, and don't be afraid to ask about all the "new" positions available. What do you have to lose?

 

[epoisses]

Think longer term. A manager who scares 8 people away won't stay in his position very long. Also, this knowledge puts you in an excellent position to ask a very decent pay.

 

[prohammy]

There is nothing in what you have described that should deter you from taking this interview. Never be afraid of the big bad boss.

(To add to what others have said) Why do you assume that you will not get along with this person. You may be the very person he is looking for. Never, never, never go into any interview with negative thoughts. You are there to promote yourself, to show these people that you are what they need. Conversely, remember that you are not God's gift to Engineering. There is a happy balance that will show you off in the perfect light (Attaining this state of interview Nirvana can only come about through experience, so from that point of view do the interview)



Kevin

“It is a mathematical fact that fifty percent of all doctors graduate in the bottom half of their class." ~Author Unknown

"If two wrongs don't make a right, try three." ~Author Unknown

 

[MedicineEng]

I agree. I worked once in a company under a manager that everybody said that was a jerk. In fact, I witnessed some less than correct attitues by him towards other workers, but only in two occasions he disrespected me. After an email stating that next time we would be sitting in CEO's office discussing his attitude, he apologized and with me was always correct as before.
Other reason is that everytime a manager changes some persons take the decision to leave the company. In my current company, with the change of the General Manager at least 5 persons in the middle management resign and it was hardly because of him, as he didn't take any decision that affected the status quo, as such, no apparent relation.
You will be only "wasting time" if you don't learn anything in the process. Also, as someone also pointed out, you might get a good deal, if they are desperate for people.
Good luck and keep us informed.

 

[jmw]

I think you have the options covered for you:
[ul][li]Good manager: weeding out the dead-wood by firing or making lives difficult.[/li]
[li]Bad Manager: he may not last long and in which case can his replacement be worse? [/li]
[li]Bad manager, and this has to be considered too, he is bullet proof and the company will continue to eat up engineers. This could mean you.[/li][/ul]

Do you expect to find a company you can work for "man and boy" until you retire?
Do you want some permanent position for career reasons, and other reasons(loans mortgages etc)?
Given the frequency of job changes,especially with younger engineers looking for their ideal job, how long do you think can you last under a bad manager? (best to experience and learn about bad managers early on in life when you can jump ship with fewer problems than later on). Is i easier to find you next position form a permanent job or from a part time or temporary job? Will a wider experience help you? Plus, when leaving a real stinker of a job, chances are your next employer will be aware of the situation and quite ready to look at an early job change with more sympathy.

You are entitled to ask about the job turnover because you are entitled to some idea of job security.

If they are losing too many guys (8 out of how many) then they will be starting to struggle to recruit. Depending on how desperate they are you might parley your concerns into a better pay deal or better conditions or something advantageous. If these guys are jumping rather than being pushed a redundancy clause won't help but you might get a better salary or conditions or some sweetener.

Now OK, engineers tend to work long hours for fun or when the job demands it without extra reward but if they choose to go home on time, then they should have that option.
But here is a situation where they may be expecting you and the others to do several peoples work and for some time to come. You need to show concern about this. Who knows what you might get written into your contract (never trust any company to perform if they won't commit it to writing)and you need to know and you can leverage something out of this too.

If you are worried about this company and go to the interview "for experience" (good idea) you are in a no loose situation so go ahead and ask tough questions and ask for whatever it is you'd want to make you take the job.


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[Heckler]

Here are some questions to ask them that will give you some idea of the inner workings of the company.

Why is this position available right now? Is is a new position or did someone leave the company?

How many times has this position been filled in the past 5 years?

What is your turn-over rate for engineers?

What should the new person do differently from the last person?

What would you most like to see done in the next 6 months with regards to this position?

What are the most difficult problems that this jobs entails?

How much freedom do I have in the decision making process?

What are my options for advancement?

What do you think constitutes success in this position?


Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SWx 2007 SP 4.0 & Pro/E 2001
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_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

This post contains no political overtones or undertones for that matter and in no way represents the poster's political agenda.

 

[KENAT]

Heckler, good questions but...

I can't help feeling at least some interviewers wouldn't like being asked all of them. Now that in and of itself may be reason to be hesitant about taking the job.

Also there's no guarantee the answer you get will be true, or at least your perception of reality.

I once had an interviewer stress being a team player etc, it rang alarm bells but I took it anyway. Turns out his version of a team meant doing what he said and how regardless of if it was sound Engineering/business sense and he'd alienated a lot of the staff that had been there a while. I found myself agreeing more with the older staff and ended up in their 'camp', no hard feelings though and he got me a very nice raise before he left

My current boss also stressed teamwork but backed it up by actions (he actually had his team sit in on part of the interview) and seemed genuine. I took the position and it really is a team.

I say go to the interview for experience if nothing else. Consiser some of the above advice on what questions to ask etc. You can decide after the interview if you take the job or not.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[MikeHalloran]

Ask for a phone interview at your convenience before wasting a day on them.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[SomptingGuy]

Uh? Wasting a day. They'll pay for it and unless you are taking leave you'll learn and possibly even enjoy the experience. This _is_ a free lunch.

 

[mbpierce]

Thanks for the input all. The interview was yesterday and I think it went ok. They're "restructuring" the Engineering department and some positions were opened while some were created and some just never filled. So I took that for what it was worth.


MikeHalloran: I've asked a few HR people for phone interviews or the ability to speak with someone in Engineering to avoid wasting my or their time, but it's like some HR guys get scared off and they take it as you not being interested. I'd rather talk to someone who's actually in the mix and find out something in 10 minutes that I'd hate rather than spend a few hours on both ends finding it out.


SomptingGuy: I haven't been comp'd for any of the 5 interviews I've been to. All interviews originated from either myself or a recruiter contacting the company though.


Everyone else: Good comments. I've saved some of these suggestions for follow up questions.

 

[HDS]

Other possibilities are

Old manager left and took those 8 engineers to his new place.

There is a business issue that scared those 8 guys off. Do you know the strength of the company?

How big is the department? 8 out of 80 is nothing 8 out of 6 is a problem.

Don't get scared just find out what really happened.

 

[mbpierce]

I actually got an offer on Wednesday. The interview was on Monday. I followed up with a few questions for my contact (HR guy) and just straight up asked him about it. He suggested calling in so him, the VP of engineering and an engineering manager could talk with me. I haven't set aside the time yet. (I guess I could be doing that now though...) I've asked a couple of times to get in touch with the direct superior to this position, but have never been given an actual name or contact information. I'd like to be able to talk to the guy I have to report to.


There are, or so I was told, about 30 engineers at the division. The company is strong and stays really busy. They're a leader in their product market and have a healthy backlog of orders.


But I do have another interview on Monday that I've been trying to get for a while now. It's a little higher profile.

 

[csd72]

Dont be too fussy about your first job, at your stage any experience counts for a lot. If it is really that bad then you can look for another job while you are still working there.

csd

 

[fcsuper]

I agree with the concesus, with a caveat. There aren't enough engineers in the market right now. You don't need one particular job just because it's available. Keep your options open.

Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
sw.fcsuper.com
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group