Do engineers make good managers? 13

[berkshire]

I saw this news clip today and thought I would throw it over the fence into the engineering group of pit bulls.
I will now step back and watch.

http://www.theengineer.co.uk/1012330.article?cmpid=TE01

The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Sometimes, often not. Interpersonal skills are often lacking.

 

[jmw]

The trouble is that very very few people make good managers. So few that trying to work out whether engineers make better or worse managers is a bit difficult.

This is made worse by the fact that many good engineers fight shy of becoming managers, possibly because they have so little respect for them and possibly because many engineers are far happier engineering than managing.

It might well be that if engineers had no choice and were forced to be managers they might, as a class, prove to be better than others.
Sadly, there is no evidence for this either.

Perhaps I should say, I have only personal experience to go buy here.
In fact while I know of only two or three people (in nearly 35 years) who were good managers they lasted only a short time (less that 3 years in total) before moving onwards and upwards or out sideways.

None of them were engineers.

On the other hand, some of the bad managers were engineers. One problem I noted then was that they tended to give full rein to there engineering instincts and very little weight to other factors.

In most companies there is an Engineering department and a Sales and Marketing department.
In one company they tried the experiment of an Engineering and Marketing department.
They created a number of great products that no one bought.
And that's something I have witnessed several times before.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[zdas04]

Managing people and budgets is a skill set. Performing an engineering analysis requires a different skill set. It is not a foregone conclusions that people with one of the skill sets will have any of the other skill set. Sometimes an individual will have a great deal of both and will be an exceptional manager.

Other times an engineer will lack the skills to be an acceptable manager and will be a train wreck. Or a manager will lack all analytic skills and let his touchy-feely mouth overload is non-analytic butt.

It makes me crazy when top management just assumes that someone is a good engineer that they'll be a good manager. It makes me just as crazy when they say that their pet MBA is managing people, not processes so the idiot MBA doesn't need to even speak the language of engineering. Neither extreme has ever worked well.

David

 

[IRstuff]

You know what you see, and being an engineer, you tend to see a lot of engineers. However, a simple example is the US Congress. A huge bunch of these guys can't even manage their zippers. And almost none of them are engineers.

One of the biggest hurdles for managers is determining the risk/reward tradeoff. The people with the zipper problems can't even seem to think there's a tradeoff.

TTFN
faq731-376

 

[MiketheEngineer]

BTW - I am a manager and get along WELL (I think) with everyone from field carpenters to the President of the company and have been so commended. But have had a few HR "types" (I would like to use a different not very polite word) tell me that I am too blunt. Of course, these are the same people that take two hours you tell you "Yes" or "No". I don't have the time for that BS!!

 

[CastMetal]

Out of a decent book I read recently, from a retired GM executive.

"He described a change of command when the squadron was taken over by a modest, humble Lieutenant Colonel who received a battlefield promotion in WW II.
His name was Art Bauer and his day job was Hose Man #2 at the San Francisco Fire Department. The squadron was composed of ambitious graduate students at Cal and Stanford who were shocked that such an uneducated man would be their commanding officer. After the Change of Command ceremony, Colonel Bauer called his 20-odd junior officers together and gave the following talk as Bob Lutz remembered it.
Colonel Bauer said: “I’m going to stay out of your way because you are all more capable than this old officer. I don’t expect you to respect me for my flying ability, because it’s not at your level. But I do want and demand your support and respect. Not for me, but for the uniform I wear and the rank that is on it. You gentlemen, not I, are going to run this squadron and I don’t want you to let me down.”
Bob Lutz said the doubts and snickering soon stopped. And, in 18 months Bauer’s squadron was rated number one in the entire Marine Corps Reserve."

Sometimes in management getting the right team and pointing them in the right direction is all you need for success.

Comprehension is not understanding. Understanding is not wisdom. And it is wisdom that gives us the ability to apply what we know, to our real world situations

 

[hokie66]

Engineering exists. Management doesn't. Don't confuse management with leadership.

 

[GregLocock]

This thread has already had 20 times as much effort put into it as the original article.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[patprimmer]

I see the question as similar to "do redheads make good managers"

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

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for site rules

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Maybe... but I think we know they row a kayak well...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[patprimmer]

OK Dan. You got me. Poor choice of hair colour in light of recent threads.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

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for site rules

 

[SNORGY]

Engineers make better Engineering Managers than do MBAs.
Of this, we can all be certain.

Regards,

SNORGY.

 

[rowingengineer]

There is truer statement than that above by Hokie66. I may well use if as my signature from now on.

http://www.nceng.com.au/

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

 

[Maui]

In support of castmetal's post above,

The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint to keep from meddling with them while they do it. - Theodore Roosevelt

Maui

http://www.EngineeringMetallurgy.com

 

[jmw]

Yep.
That accounts for it.
By some fluke of statistics I have encountered 3 who can come even close to fulfilling this requirement.

The trick to anything is not finding good managers, it is keeping the company afloat knowing full well you will have to do it with bad managers. That is the miracle of any human enterprise.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[MiketheEngineer]

I am a "manager" but consider myself a "guider"

Trying to:
Show how to do things
Grow your career
Learn stuff
Get along with others
Listen when you cry
Point you in the right direction so you may learn on your own
Make your life less miserable
Communicate efeectively

and TAKE OVER MY JOB when this sorry A$$ departs this world....

 

[hokie66]

Mike,
That is far from my definition of a manager. If your description is accurate, you are an engineer and a leader, not a manager.

 

[patprimmer]

A leader inspires us to follow their direction. They do this mainly by example and charisma.

A manager organises. They make sure work is scheduled, raw materials are available, staff is allocated, reporting and financial needs and requirements are met etc etc. They do this by being organised and methodical and maybe analytical.

Being good at one is a distinct advantage to being good at the other.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[jmw]

They make sure work is scheduled, raw materials are available, staff is allocated, reporting and financial needs and requirements are met etc etc. They do this by being organised and methodical and maybe analytical.

Or they delegate this to more capable people, if they are smarter than the average and recognise they fall far short of "good" manager status.
Analyse what they do and you'll find they don't actually work any of this out themselves. They are enablers rather than doers.
Sales and Marketing have told him what they want.
The manager now approaches engineering to get it done.
"Mike, how much time do you need?"
"Pete, who do you need in the team?"
"OK guys, how much money do we need?"
The engineers feed him their answers (suitably prepared so he can create a Power Point for the directors) and then he steps back and lets the troops (engineers) get on with it.
If he is an average run of the mill manager his being a "good" or adequate manager depends on him not interfering or trying to do things he isn't equipped to do.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com