Do engineers make good managers? 13

[tz101]

In my experience, most engineers make for poor managers, even engineering managers. I have worked for "engineering managers" who were little more than glorified designers. Far too often, promotions in most offices are based upon politics and buddy systems in place. This is so unfortunate because the direct and indirect reports suffer the most and often leave over this kind of stupidity. From what I have seen, many engineers are introverts who are detailed problem solvers and thinkers in general. They are great at dissecting the issues at hand, but get lost too easily when it comes to managing workers or large projects (realize that I, too, am an engineer so am labeling myself). Now, without stereotyping, I realize that there are exceptions in all cases.

Having said all that, I do not believe the solution is to go the MBA route in engineering departments. All I have seen over my career is bean counters making messes of things all in the name of the financial bottom line. Worse yet, I have worked at places that had product engineers answering as direct reports to manufacturing managers. That was absolutely wrong, but no one seemed to care.

I think the answer is, in many engineering departments, to have the manager be a person who has risen through the ranks of engineering, but who also displays some good managerial skills as well. Please don't make me ever work under a manufacturing or production manager ever again.

 

[peppinu]

I think for an engineer to be a manager he/she needs to forget the engineering work. The role of a manager is to plan, lead and control, amongst other things.
If an engineer wants to remain an engineer in a managerial position then they should not be there in the first place.
Another point is that a manager is not born a manager. Engineering qualifications and so many years experience does not make a manager automatically. Unfortunately most managers are made managers through this path without ever getting training as managers.

 

[TheTick]

Some people are good engineers.
Some are good leaders.
Some are both.
Most are neither.

 

[tz101]

"If an engineer wants to remain an engineer in a managerial position then they should not be there in the first place."

I had this at my last job. The "plant manager" was basically an overblown ME with an outsized ego. He wanted myself and another guy to design the machinery we built, but only after he micromanaged us and belabored every minute detail of our projects. No freedom within our engineering department at all, and I was glad when they downsized me out the door.

Basically, the guy was not ready to let go of the engineering reigns. How many plant managers can you name that have an active seat of SolidWorks on their computer and continue to mess with active product designs all while engineers try to correct their design mistakes (making a huge mess of things too)? The guy really made the place into a frustrating zoo by his reluctance to fully step into the managerial side of things and take his hands off engineering.

Thankfully, I no longer work there...

 

[GregLocock]

Well damn, at least I know who to ask when I want to hear a whine.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[patprimmer]

Greg

I saw quite a few of them in this thread.

Some made by people who clearly have no more understanding of a real management role than they accuse their managers of re engineering.

There is an old truism. If your doing it yourself, you ain't managing.

A managers role is to allocate tasks and resources as appropriate to best utilise the available resources. The choices may not seem good to those looking at the micro rather than the macro picture.

Regards
Pat
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[tz101]

Must be hitting too close to home for some.

 

[beej67]

In my experience, probably only one in five engineers make good managers. But in my experience, one guy can only really manage four engineers well in the first place, so the ratios work out.

Non-engineers managing engineers are worse than engineers with bad management skills managing engineers.

my .02.

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[Maui]

It's much easier to teach a good engineer the soft skills they need to have to become an effective manager than it is to teach a business major the technical skills they would need to become an effective engineer. Companies like Caterpillar operate using this principal, which is one of the reasons why they are such a successful company. They understand.

Maui

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[jmw]

Successful companies with a strong engineering content usually start with better than average engineers to begin with. It may bias the figures one way or another.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[patprimmer]

Successful companies are generally reasonably strong in all areas. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. An element of being in the right or wrong places at particular times can skew the result a bit but overall it takes good skills across the board and teamwork.

Bitching about or actively undermining other departments does damage teamwork.

Regards
Pat
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[lacajun]

I've had a number of managers, who were engineers. They were mostly good managers but only a few were outstanding managers and leaders. Most stink at leadership, which is something I think people can learn, if they have the desire.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[SNORGY]

I think a lady named Dana Pike said it best at an agility seminar I was at a couple of years ago.
A dog / handler team were having some trouble negotiating a sequence, and the lateness with which the handler was delivering her cues resulted in the dog barking, anticipating, guessing and ultimately offering (I.e. taking) several incorrect obstacles and off courses.
The handler froze, shrugged, turned around and looked to Dana for advice.
Dana said, "Well, *somebody* has to be the leader.".
In similar fashion, when a decision stalls everyone else, a leader is the one that steps up and says, "Well, I have no idea if this is right, but unless you tell me something different, here is what we're doing."
Who knew you could learn that much from a dog?

Regards,

SNORGY.

 

[jmw]

Did the dog have an MBA and are animals exempt in your world?
Oh, sorry. The dog was the smart one and the dog owner the MBA. Got it. All's right with the world. Perfect analogy to the real world where the rank and file routinely save the day from management disasters.

PS I had to go back and worry at this one because I couldn't figure out why someone would bring their dog to an agility seminar.... the picture of an MBA hating Snorgy negotiating cones, chutes, slides etc. flashed into my mind when I realised it was a "dog agility" seminar. If you called it a dog training class my PC (Pre Coffee) mind would have done somewhat better.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[SNORGY]

I would follow up on this thread but what I would say would off topic and more a pub conversation.
Still, the message I have is that it is my opinion that one sure sign of a leader is someone who will make a decision when nobody else will.

Regards,

SNORGY.

 

[lacajun]

SNORGY, good point. Many won't make a decision out of fear of making a mistake though.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[SNORGY]

*A* decision is always better than *indecision*.

It often comes down to Client control. When I need information or commitment from a Client on one of my projects, I usually advise Client, "Unless instructed otherwise by (date), then base on our conversation / correspondence dated (date), we are proceeding on this basis...". The same holds true within project teams. However, that does come with the price that, should the decision be wrong, then the decision was *mine*. That's why they pay me what they perceive to be the big bucks.

Hopefully, my decisions are good ones.

Like not getting an MBA, for example.

 

[patprimmer]

I disagree to a point about a leader always making decisions when others won't, or at least with regard to that being implied as a good thing.

Shooting from the hip with insufficient data is bad.

Not making a decision by a critical time is also bad.

In my opinion, the correct procedure is to collect the data, do the analysis, make the decision in time. Easy. Harder when time constraints precede full data acquisition and analysis and making the best from what you have.

On a case by case basis, do you walk away, do you make an interim decision or do you commit and wear the consequences. That is where real leadership comes in.

Regards
Pat
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[SNORGY]

Pat,
I need to come and work where you work. To be in a place where doing the right thing is actually considered to be the right thing to do would be a refreshing change for me.

 

[patprimmer]

SNORGY

I'm retired now, but my version of right has had me both rewarded and punished over the years, depending on the character and ability of my boss at the time.

Regards
Pat
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