Do I go to school, or take formation during work? 11

[PatCouture]

Hi

I'm a 22 years old Technician in mechanical engineering, I've been working for about Three years as a Technician, designing machine for the food industrie in a small company. During those 3 years I learned a lot on the job and I been offered a promotion to be in charge of R&D. There's a lot of potential in that and I would be very happy to fullfil that role. On the other hand I would like to get more knowledge about engineering to be able to do better and more sophisticated machines.

So I am considering going back to school full time, to take the engineering class, and sacrificing this opportunity. Or taking the job and taking some classes paid by the company, at the same time.

What's best learning at school and getting a diploma, or learning on the job?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Patrick

 

[Lorentz]

Hi PatCouture:

If your company is offering you both a promotion and payment for additional education, I think you should stay with them as they are unusually generous.

If you go back to school, the head of R&D position will be filled by someone else. It is unlikely that it will again be available to you. Worse yet, depending on the economy, outsourcing etc. etc. you might have difficulty getting any job when you graduate.

A bird in the hand is much better than a turkey you might have to settle for if you graduate in a recession.

Good Luck!

 

[JRW261]

So your have a MET degree now, or just work in the field as a tech? If you can get the job without the degree, I say get it. Im approaching the completion of my 4 years now and see alot of friends having trouble getting really good job offers. I work for a company I can make 50g laboring and with my attitude and work ethic, I am fairly confident that I could "force" my way up the food chain. Yes, at one point I would have been limited by my lack of degree, but near 60gs with a desk job isn't much different than 4 years of paying increasing tuition and starting at 40-45gs working for a company that thinks your a number. Now that I am approaching graduation, I seriously wonder if it is worth it. I feel fairly comfident I would have been able to teach myself all of the skills I have to this day from reading books, most of which I paid proffessors todo and still ended up teaching myself. I am not happy with how many hoops one must jump through in order to get a degree that that person is paying for. I am not talking about taking the classes and doing good, I am talking about the university changing the orientation of class schedules/offering which makes its seems that they want you for 5 years not 4. Worrying about the .5 credits of gym you need because they changed how much credit gyms were worth in the middle of your degree. Not giving you ANY credit for the 3 years of job experience and 6 years of field experience. Its rediculous, I have more on-the-job experience than 90% of my fellow students but it isn't worth crap to the school. But if you help the proffessors do research and have your nose up their blank all day long they suddenly are holding your hand and showing you every crack in the system. I guess thats life. I just am not entirly convinced a degree was the way to go. Too late now. In short, if you have a good job offer take it, I am not one who believes the economy is horrible right now, but I do believe companies are not making big offers and really could care less if they hire young new faces. Keep in mind this is a one sided opinion. Im sure others will have a more possitive opinion of school

 

[SlideRuleEra]

Earning the diploma is essential. Without it you have no credentials that are generally acceptable. The diploma itself does not "improve" your skills but it demonstrates that you have been educated in a variety of areas that are important. Examples: math, science & writing skills.
Could you take the job & the classes with the end result of the classes being an engineering degree?

 

[zdas04]

There are so many distance learning opportunities for an undergraduate engineering degree from a quality school, that in your shoes there is no way I'd walk away from that job.

It's hard to do a job and school at the same time (that's how I got my Masters), but millions have done it.

David

 

[GregLocock]

If the job sounds fun, and suits you, then I'd take it. This may be your first step up the management tree, in which case you may find your (non existent) engineering degree is irrelevant. Worst case is that you can do your degree later, whereas the chances are slim that you'll get such a job offer again so conveniently.

If you find your new job is too technical then either hire a technical right hand man, or put the hard word on your employer to help you with your degree.

Congratulations!


Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[rmw]

After my first engineering job, and a bad case of burnout, I took a job in a related field, but not real engineering. After a couple of miserable years, I was let go, and after a short job seeking stint, got a job back into engineering, where I have been every since in a variety of positions.

One reason I was let go was that business had turned down, (it was the first arab oil embargo) and it was me or the bosses nephew that had to go in order to reduce the workforce.

Upon seeing my relative success in finding work again in the engineering profession, the bosses nephew then quit and went back to school, and continued his education. My landing on my feet gave him the motivation to get serious about getting a formal education.

I recommend the education. Rome was not built in a day, so if it takes you a longer time to do it while pursuing a job that interests you, and might enhance your resume some day, then just plod through it.

When I finally did get through with my education, it was the work experience that I had while getting educated that got me the job where others with the same education and better gpa's were left looking for work.

rmw

 

[chris9]

It depends on what your long-term career goals are. If you want to work your way up the management career ladder then take the R&D post but you may be tied down to your current employer. You may find it hard to land an equal job elsewhere if you don’t have the right qualifications.

Bear in mind that not everyone wants to be a manager; they work stinking hours and must be ‘yes’ men. It can be more lucrative to get your degree, specialise, move around a lot and also become self-employed.

For example the contractor often earns double the salary of a middle manager often because the contractor can do something that the manager can’t do. Not only that, contractors don’t get caught up in childish office politics. I’ve thought about doing both but have decided that I want to be my own man and not a ‘yes’ man.

 

[PSE]

Would your current "peers" be comfortable working for you? Would you be comfortable being in charge of them? In addition to the education, you will be expending a significant part of your personal energy in a leadership role. Answer those questions for yourself to help make your decision. In any case, persuing the additional education is a good thing. If your company is willing to help that is even better. Like others have posted, leaving work to get schooling full time may not be wise at this point.

Regards,

 

[NickE]

I go with everyone who said do both.

An engineering education is so much more than just "book smarts". The problem solving techniques and the core of an engineering degree (thermo, physics, chemistry, materials, mechanics, statistics, math, electronics, etc...) will provide you with a highly developed and usefull view of the world and will allow you to understand the work that will be going on underneath you as a manager of a highly technical department.

OTOH:

R&D is awesome and a blast. I had to wait several years after school and then am paid less than if I was the engineer in the box. Great job chances dont come every day esp with the way the world economy is going.


Also the company that is willing to promote you is likely also willing to commit to your future with them. Imagine if one of your development engineers brought you a new design, Said it was great! It will save tons of money, be more efficient, save the Ozone layer -- all that good stuff. So you support the design and invest much of your department's funding and effort to develop it. When you think you are just about finished one of your durability tests finds a fatal flaw. There is no metal known that will provide any service life. With the engineering knowledge you might have been able to avoid the pothole.



Nick
I love materials science!

 

[PatCouture]

Thanks guys for the quick response. I could give you all a star.

I got to say that I'm from Québec so my technical diploma comes from a Cégep. In québec we have 5 years of high school, and at 17 or 18 we go to Cégep for 2 years if you want to go to University, or 3 years if you want a technical diploma. In my case I've done the technical course, I've learned the basics of engineering so I have what it takes to build a machines but only simple ones.

The point is that if a take the Job I think I can teach myself some things that I didn't see at school and also use everything I can to increased my knowledge. My boss is ready to give me some classes but only in short times, I mean a 2 week period or something like that. It's far from engineering courses.

If I go to university, my boss told me that he would replace me, so it means that I have to forget about this job. Another things is that If I don't go to school now I'll never go.

As Chris said it's about my career goal, I know that I can stay in this Company maybe for 5 to 10 years, but if it goes wrong with the company I would never be able to find another job as High as I would be here. So I think in that case it would be better with a university diploma.

In that way I not sure if I want to be stuck with this company for most of my life, I mean there is really good things here but also some bads that I don't have any control over.

Zdas04 you say that there is a lot of distance learning opportunities, but I'm not sure if in Québec I can get some. If so I don't know any of them

As you can see I have no idea what to do right now, both choice would be great. The thing is that if I don't go to school and it goes wrong with the company then I will regret my choice. On the other hand if I go to school and I can't get through those 4 years I'll regret losing that job.

Thanks again everyone

Patrick

 

[COKA]

Allo Patrick,

I know a guy who graduated from a Cégép as a technician and then went to University to get an Engineering degree and he did not regret it! The way I see it, you have to take chances at some point. If it was my choice, I would go back to school without question! The economy is not great as we speak and it is the best time to get a higher education. Why wouldn't you be able to go through school?? Of course you can do it! You already have a technician degree, the engineering degree is only going to complement you. You know the basics, now you are going to enlarge your horizons. And you know what? Nobody says that you have to finish your degree in 4 years. You can take 5 years. If you don't go to school, you'll always have the thought in your head: What if I went to school...? And NO, you don't want to stay in a company just because you don't have a university degree and because you think that you'll never be able to get a better job because of that. You can always get a better job, you have to be perseverant! But having a degree helps! My suggestion to you is to apply to University (english spoken just so that you have better options later) and wait. Once you are accepted, then you'll think about it. Give yourself some time to digest the idea of a possible return to school. Go talk to future professors and see what they think. I think that you have a great opportunity to get better! Not everybody does!
Bonne chance!

Coka

 

[aspearin1]

There is a lot of great advice in this post, and you can see that different people put a strong value on different things. Coka is right, it is a great economic time to be in school. For anyone graduating right now, they should be strongly urged to go on to higher education. However, you are also given the chance to have a good job in a bad economy. It's a promotion opportunity that will give you tremendous experience. Although I'm all for full-time school, life experience can speak for more. The university may not make you a better engineer, it will make you more marketable though. So with all this said, time comes into play. The way I see it, your window of opportunity to go back to school will always be open. Your window of opportunity for this job is probably already closing. Worse case scenerio is that you take the job and the job goes sour after 3 years. You could just as easily start school at that time as any other time. Then you'd graduate and not only have a diploma, but 3 years of R&D management experience. I'll put any money down that if you put "Manager" and "Research and Development" down in the same resume, that will speak much higher than BS in Mechanical Engineering. So my advice is to take the job for 3-5 years, then get the diploma. Rule of thumb right now among young engineers (at least in the US) is that you should not spend more than 5 years in the same company anyway. Clearly you'll NEED the diploma, and the experience would be and AMAZING addition. So find a way in which you can have both. Try and paint a broader picture for yourself and realize that you have more than just 2 choices in this matter.

ChemE, M.E. EIT
"The only constant in life is change." -Dan Andia; 1999, Chemical Engineering Progress

 

[EdDanzer]

Patrick,
You are in a tough place. I chose not to get the degree. Sometimes it seem like the best choice, others, not so good. Part of the reason I never went for the degree is I majored in partying for several months and couldn’t make grades. To pay for my drinking I worked as a machinist and welder until the job was finished, That was in 1975, Boeing was in a bad way so unemployment for machinists was over 20% in our area, so I started my own business. This has been a roller coaster ride, some good years, some bad. Although I have never had trouble finding work, this lack of a degree has limited my ability to do certain types of work. Some companies, and most governmental agencies only look at the degree, not the ability. To make up for this I have hired engineers, and hired consultants to complete the appearance required.
So to answer you question. Take the current job, but set out a time frame to get as much of your degree without interfering with your current job, save some money so you can take the time off to complete your degree, and find a new job. If you miss you time schedule, don’t beat your self up, just recheck your priorities, and reschedule your goals. As you get older it is harder to commit to further education if you have a family and work more than 40 hours a week.
Over the years I have been unwilling to make the sacrifices to get the degree, and at age 49 going on 50, don’t think I will. The advantage of not having the degree is that I have worked in more different projects than if I had a degree.

 

[COKA]

aspearin1,
I agree with you that since he is given a good job in a bad economy situation, it is an amazing opportunity for him to get experience, but from another point of view, Patrick is 22 years old, and if he wants to have a family in the next 5-10 years, with kids and a house to pay for and so on, it will not be the time to go back to school. And once in that situation, he probably won't go back, and that is when the regrets will kick in: I should have done it before I got married, kids, etc...
It is a tough decision and it is much easier telling somebody else do this, do that, but unless we are in that situation we can not know for sure.

Coka

 

[aspearin1]

True, Coka... very true. I'm in the family situation myself. My option is keep a decent job in a bad economy and go to school part-time for my masters. Hopefully then I can get a great job in a good economy. So it may stand to reason that Patrick could have too little life constraints. So let me clarify. My advice is to make school a priority for importance. If you can have the discipline to maintain this goal, then you will benefit greatly by adding the R&D managerial experience. If you find yourself to be a person who needs more immediate goals and focuses better that way, then Coka's plan may be better for you. You can have 1 gold nugget today or 2 gold nuggets next week. Which will you choose?

ChemE, M.E. EIT
"The only constant in life is change." -Dan Andia; 1999, Chemical Engineering Progress

 

[IRstuff]

As you indicate, the opportunity is there and since you seem comfortable in accepting the position, I think you should. You may find out whether it's really right for you or not and whether it's to your liking or not.

If your company offers educational reimbursement, you can go that route, if not, you can still do that on your own. Particularly now, since you're young and potentially have the time and energy to do it.

I would advise against going back to school full time, given this opportunity. School will always be there, but the opportunity will not.

TTFN

 

[PatCouture]

I totally agree with Coka, on the fact that I don't want to have kids when I will be 35, a give myself 5 years before establishing a family, and I don't see myself raising kids and going to school, just school will be plenty enough. So even if I take the job for 3 to 5 years when I will try to have a new job there will be this credibilty issue mentionned by Slideruleera, Unless I make good contact for a better job, my resumé will still have that Technical diploma only.

Thanks

Patrick

 

[Lorentz]

Hi Again PatCouture

Doesn't it make you feel good to have all these strangers taking such an interest in your career?

I gave you a star IRstuff for your last comment:

"I would advise against going back to school full time, given this opportunity. School will always be there, but the opportunity will not. "

truer words were never spoken. (And no one employed by a University will ever speak them.)

I regret going to University right after High School, I think I missed out on some life experiences because of this. Oh well, maybe I'll catch up on them when I retire.

 

[CSEllc]

My opinion .......You will be more marketable w/ a degree than without a degree.

With the degree you can "achieve" more than without one.

Go back to school, either full time or part-time, but don't wait.

Lorentz said he missed out on some of life's experiences because he went to college after high school. But what about all the experiences he had during those years? He would not have had them, good or bad, if it was at a different time in his life......

The only regret, if you can call it that, I have in my life, so far, I never went to Grad school as I planned. I started working in a college professors consulting (structural) office during the summer of my sophmore year. That "part-time" job became a full-time position that lasted for three years after graduation. That job turned into another, which, become another, which led to another, which led to my own office. Do I reget not going to grad school, in a way, yes. But at this point in my life...I'll never go back and I accept that.

Don't make the mistake that college will always be there.......it might be......but your life's situations might not allow you to go when you can......

Go back.......learn......study......excel......If you are good enought to become head of R&D with three years being a tech....imagine where you can go with an education....