Do U agree 11

[rjh03]

Hi,
I once read : "An engineer is one who can do for one dollar what any fool can do for two". To say the truth I am very much impressed with this statement and most of the times it seems valid to me. Do U agree with it, or do U think that it somehow contradicts the engineering ethics???

 

[nauticalmike]

Although not entirely related to the discussion currently underway, I have something that I wish to add. Rather than an opinion about the proverb already presented though, I have another one for you.

The Japanese have a saying which loosely translated says:

Engineers make the money and lawyers divide that money up into smaller and smaller portions

 

[haggis]

Gentlemen,

Engineering, Engineer, Professional. Most of the posts in this forum are only a play of words.

The only ones I agree with are if anyone misrepresents themselves as being a Licenced member of a Professional or Regulatory Body or Association, or by having a Masters in Engineering when in fact they dropped out of high school, then by all means jail them.

Lets not get our knickers in a twist about using the word "engineer". Lots of people use this term and are in no way trying to mislead anyone into believing they are Licenced Professional Engineers.

Am I, in legal or juristictional terms, a Professional Engineer? No. I am however, an Engineering professional by virtue of having 41 years expierience in conveying systems and special purpose machinery. The 41 years encompass the 16 year old "hands on" apprentice, draftsman and then designer or as one post put it, "promoted draftsman".

The title of Mechanical Designer suits me but if I brainchild a piece of machinery which is unique in performing it's fuction, if I choose to do so, I feel I am entitled to say I "Engineered" it.

Another post states something about "not even having attended a regognized School of Engineering". Wake up graduates, when you graduate you know nothing about real world Engineering and I suggest you investigate a crash course on reality.

In contradiction to the beliefs of many Engineers, another post describes "engineering" by the following:

While the definition of "engineering" in our provincial Act is broad (' "engineering means the science and art of designing, investigating, supervising the construction, maintenance or operation of, making specifications, inventories or appraisals of, and consultations or inventories or appraisals or, and consultations or reports on machinery, structures, works, plants, mines, mineral deposits, processes, transportation systems, transmission systems, and communication systems or any other part thereof;" '), our definition of illegal practice are is fairly specific: "...uses verbally or otherwise the title of professional engineer or any abbreviation of such title, or any name, title, description or designation that may LEAD ANY PERSON TO BELIEVE that such person is a professional engineer..."

I think this makes the use of the word "engineer" and the "Illegal" use quite clear.

Sorry if I have came across as being uppity, but for the new grads, I wish you all well, leave the snob factor behind in the hallowed halls, keep your feet on the ground and your head out of the clouds and maybe you can learn a lot from old timers like me. As for the older ones whom I suspect wrote some of these insulting posts, well, what can one say?

 

[ietech]

Local 39, IUOE -- AFL-CIO, (International Union of Operating Engineers) based in San Francisco CA is the representitive body of folks holding the titles of "Operating Engineer" operate and maintain operating equipment i.e. backhoes, graders, tractors, cranes, etc., "Stationary Engineers" generally operate and maintain stationary equipment i.e. boilers, HVAC, elevators, pumping systems and other related building equipment. "Utility Engineers" a lower level of the Stationary Engineer that does not include the maint. and operation of boilers and HVAC. Basically these folks are very special mechanics and operators and the term "Engineer" is used in the same light as the Locomotive Engineer. Not too many of these "Engineers" have degrees beyond an Associates (AS) in their specialties but do have formal training required by the union.

I think the point I am trying to make is, that there are respectable professions using the word "Engineer" as part of their title, but they do not claim to be capable of or involved in any way, in the design or construction of Public Works projects, public transportation, public utilities, or any public facilities. They also do not represent themselves as a Professional Engineer. In the US we do have the freedom to use a public domain word in any way that does not mislead the public. I think intent is the deciding factor.

All due respect to "Professional Engineers" but contrary to the belief of many posting here we do not own this word.

Irrespective of anyones views on unions; I don't think an organization with the size and recognition of the IUOE or AFL-CIO would intentionally violate local, state, national laws.

Wishing All A Great and Productive 2004

ietech

 

[haggis]

Well said ietech.

As a footnote to my previous post, and aimed primarily at those "engineers" who think one is substandard if not University educated, I also from time to time design structures or reinforced concrete work where machinery has to be supported or placed at sub floor level.

In theses instances, I do have the drawings reviewed and sealed by a Professional Structural Engineer.

Am I overstepping my bounds in a design capacity? The fact that a P.E. seals these drawings and ultimately assumes responsability, I think answers the question.

There are Professional Engineers out there who refuse to seal someone elses work and I can only think of two reasons why. 1. There is not enough money in it or 2. they can't swallow the fact that there are good experienced people out there that can't claim membership in alumni or fraternity.

Getting off topic a little, but maybe it proves a point. One of the worlds greatest pilots, if in fact not the greatest, was never admitted to the space program because his bars were of blue cloth and not gold. You know who I mean, the Hill Billy from West Virginia...Brigadier General Chuck Yaeger

 

[zdas04]

haggis,
When a PE stamps a drawing, he is assuming personal liability for that drawing. That liability generally includes both the risk of civil suits and criminal charges. I would stamp someone else's work only if the reward adequately compensated me for the risk and if I spent the time required to properly evaluate that risk.

I certainly accept that there are good, experienced people out there without a PE or even an engineering degree, but a design that has a reasonable potential to do harm carries a potential penalty that far exceeds the $500-600 you can charge to stamp a drawing. I ain't going to jail (or even losing my license) for $500.

David