Do you believe in the 5 year rule? 16

[bradpa77]

In school it was the most commonly given piece of advice from teachers: "Stay at your first job for 5 years, then start looking for a new job if you want to".

Anyone have any real world proof that shows the advantages of following that rule or the disadvantages of breaking it?

 

[proletariat]

I have had three jobs in the last 5 years and am getting ready to start looking again.

Job #1 - moved because I didn't like the particular brand of construction work we were doing, and couldn't see myself spending a career doing it.

Job#2 - Government work. I used the job for their inherent slackness and excellent PE training program, and then moved on.

Job#3 - Current job. No real opportunity for advancement. Inept boss. Small 401k contribution. Little exposure to growth opportunities. I'll be starting to look soon.

I have never had a problem finding a job, even though I am a job-hopper.

 

[RobWard]

I believe in the 12 inch rule...

"I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go past." Douglas Adams

 

[jmw]

"I have never had a problem finding a job, even though I am a job-hopper."

On the other hand, Proletariat, the jobs you've found don't seem to have given you much satisfaction.

A history of "didn't like the type of work we were doing" and "I used the job for their inherent slackness and excellent PE training program, and then moved on." will ring alarm bells even in the mind of the most incompetent HR.
Just how do you explain your career history convincingly at interviews?

I would think you need to leven this history with some solid time somewhere that will generate some respect.
There is no doubt that having some good time in at a prestigious company does open doors but getting that prestigious company into your career history is the problem.

The really tough part about job finding is to find one you'd be happy at for a long time.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[proletariat]

I can't figure out how to do the nifty quote box, but in response to the question above...

I am slightly more tactful in an actual interview, and tend to leave out the inherent slackness part of my description of government work. I do actually have some pretty good reasons for leaving each job that go over well in an interview. I was being cavaleir on this internet message board for effect.

 

[Ashereng]

proletariat,

click on the "Process TGML" link at the bottom of the response window. It will tell you.

 

[Ashereng]

How is leaving for another job after a year 3 times, any different than going to 3 companies who happens to lay you off after a year each time (for legitimate reasons)?

How about someone who is self-employed, and gets 3 one-year contracts with 3 different companies?

I see them as all the same.

I hear lots of my friends, who are managers in companies, and/or are owners of companies, complain that they can't find or keep good people.

My question always is, "Would they have stayed if you increased their compensation by 50% ?".

Their answer, in general, is a version of "Well, I/we can't do that."

My conclusion from the exchange is, you didn't want them enough to do what it took to get/keep them, but someone else did/does.

 

[CarolinaPE]

It all depends on the opportunity for advancement and other rewards available. I would never look to leave a place just because the five years were up. However, my experience has been that employers will only give cost of living type raises. This does not compensate someone (especially a young engineer) for the knowledge they have gained and will not keep their earnings competitive. If after four or five years you can increase your "deal" substantially (by looking around) then go for it. Know your market value.

 

[GregLocock]

"my experience has been that employers will only give cost of living type raises"

The smallest annual raise I have ever had in 20 odd years is inflation plus 2%.



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[ProEDesigner00]

Greg
Exactly, that is why I contract. I do not like 2.5% raise when my medical premium cost at the same time goes up 3.5%.

I suppose averaged out over the years so far I could have mde the same with a 65k a year full time job but the experience in the different areas of mechanical application is what keeps me doing the contract work. I get very bored if I sit in one area for a year and dont get to do anything else but what that work group is assigned.

 

[AndrewTX]

It is definitely not a "rule", but for me it has worked out that way more often than not.

I did leave my first job after 4 years. Of course I only spent 6 months at job number 2 before my original employer wanted me back. I spent another 5 years back at the original company before I left again (for the last time).

I've been with my current employer approaching 5 years. Although I'm not itching to leave, when recruiters call me I do listen.

 

[boffintech]

Newfella wrote, “However, my experience has been that employers will only give cost of living type raises. This does not compensate someone (especially a young engineer) for the knowledge they have gained and will not keep their earnings competitive.”

Exactly! It’s nearly impossible to sell your current employer on who you have become in order to justify a big raise. To get decent raise you have to sell a potential employer on the illusion of who you are and what you can do for them (solve or fulfill some need) and then move to them.

 

[Ashereng]

Would you pay for a top of the line PC, if all you need was an abacus? I probably won't.

Your employer pays you for the value he/she hopes to derive. What you are capable above that will not be compensated for, although it will be taken advantage of.

Hence, if you want more $$$, you need to find an employer with more needs such that he will be willing to pay more $$$.

My 2 cents' (plus living allowance) worth.

 

[proletariat]

I think the biggest advantage I have gained from hopping is a sense of perspective. If you spend 10 yrs in one company, how will you ever know what else is out there, and what you are missing out on? If I spent 10 yrs of misery in my current company, I would probably quit engineering all together. However, I know that there are greener pastures and my current situation is a temporary one.

My career path up to now has been a soul-searching exercise because I wasn't ready to tread water for 10yrs in the first company that gave me a job. Now, I have settled on a particular branch of Civil that I like, because it involves interaction with the non-pocket-protector-sporting demographic of society as well as some talented engineers. It took me 5 years of changing jobs to find my niche and I wouldn't have it any other way. Unfortunately, I can't ply my trade to my liking in this current company, so off to the job hunt with me.

The moral of the story is don't settle for unfulfilling work for fear of the "job hopper" label, but don't conform to some arbitrary "5year" rule either. Search until you get what you're after.

 

[proletariat]

... Furthermore, I don't wish to be a wage slave for the rest of my life. I need about another 7 years before going on my own, but exposure to different business models via hopping will help me approach sole proprietorship with the benefit of that perspective thing I was talking about before. Remember, you are not only working at a company to learn engineering, but also business, marketing, driving forces within your market, etc. Look outside the cube once in awhile.

 

[LIGWY]

I always looked at "Quality of Life" not the money!!

 

[HCBFlash]

These replies all reflect different points of view, and you've got to face the present and future without falling into the "it worked for me" or "it always used to be" trap.

Looking out through the 2 little peepholes I've got, it seems like "outsourcing" and "contracting out" is what we have to deal with right now. I doubt you can even hang on to a position 5 years,,,, unless it's for a "contractor", but that even looks like a long shot. Don't let that fact bother you or get you down, or give you an attitude; it's just what the present market appears to be.

Please let us all know how this works out for you! and don't forget faq731-376

 

[SmartEngineer]

For me, I did move into another company with similar business as previous one after 5 years.
The reason is that the previous company did not give me anything either promotion nor salary increase when I got my MS degree in same major (Chemical Eng) as part-time student for about 4.5 year including thesis work.
In contrast, the new company do value me and my degree and gave me about 30% increase on basic salary of that of previous company.
Also, they gave me 2 grades more as to fit me well on their org.
In general, I do recommend to looking for a job after sometime (after 4-5 years) if you find it is worthwhile for future and benefits as well.

I wish you all the best for your career

Cheers
SmartEngineer

 

[EngineerDave]

My history
First post bachelors degree
96- Stayed for 1 year. Liked the actual work, was very upset with a manager who ran another business on company time and delegated additional work to me as a result.

Second job- Stayed 4 years, left to get a graduate degree. Hoped to return but due to a poor economy they didn't honor my return when I thought they would

So I started a second advanced degree. I worked in 3rd Job for a year and half while i continued the other degree.

4th Job- Prestigious Place thread. Been there a year. Another place offered me a job for a second time in my hometown for more money and a significant amount more if you factor in cost of living. I wouldn't have considered any jobs elsewhere, but this one is in my hometown and i know the people who work there. So regrettably I think I'll be leaving my 4th job to go to number 5. Which means in 10 years I'll be on my 5th employer. I'm a little disturbed about this but on the flip side I can't argue the results. I've more than tripled my salary! Partly due to a change in career and the grad degrees.