Do you remember when work was fun? 1

[ajack1]

I work in the UK for a fairly small company that designs and manufactures tooling and special purpose machinery almost exclusively for the automotive industry. I have done this for all my working life and have always enjoyed the challenge and the variety as in a small company you have to wear many hats.

However things just seem to be getting worse over the last few years. I have never enjoyed paperwork and have turned down offers to go into managerial roles because of this. Whilst my job (designer) has always involved some paperwork it was not that much and just part of the job, but this is changing almost daily, with customers demanding constant progress reports, ISO standards demanding that everything has a paper trail a mile long, certificates of conformity and the like.

Add to this everyone wants everything done for nothing and with near impossible deadlines and however much you try to trim things down someone often (but not always) in a developing country is happy to do it for next to nothing.

This leads to having to get numerous prices in for everything and even more paper work and then having to ring around to try and get even bigger discounts, often from small companies that I have dealt with for years, knowing that I am contributing to their going out of business, which many already have.

I know this makes me sound like a lazy, ill-disciplined worker who fights change but that really is not true, I just enjoy making things work far more than reams of paperwork.

At 47 I am not sure I want to do this for the rest of my working life, but have no idea what else I want to do.

Do others feel the same, has anyone found a successful alternative or should I just stop moaning?

 

[jsummerfield]

At 56 almost every day is still fun. That is the way it should be.

John

 

[EngJW]

It used to be that engineers did engineering and had a department of secretaries, technicians, drafters, and administrators to support them. Once downsizing got started, engineers were expected to do all those things. The result in some cases is that not much engineering work gets done anymore, and when engineering is needed the companies contract it out or bring in job shoppers. The in-house engineer becomes nothing more than a baby sitter.

We can also blame computers for a lot of this. Now we all have our own Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Autocad, and so on so that we don't need all that help we used to get.

Personally I am fairly content at work because I remained just a lowly engineer. There are plenty of challenges and lots of satisfaction in finishing a design, but if the work load gets overwhelming I go home at quitting time and worry about it the next day. I am almost 60, and some of the things that upset me when I was 30 don't bother me now.

 

[plasgears]

When ISO9000 was introduced in our company, it had a familiar ring to it. It took me back to my time at a jet engine mfr. At that time quality served engineering as a partner, and the product benefited from it.

Now, working under automotive QS9000, quality is taking on a role of supervising engineering, in a sense, without being qualified to do so. I have come across QA types who design ridiculous tests like using ult strength as an indicator of cyclic life. Engineers know that this is foolish. I tried to explain this to a bully QA type, and he essentially told me to shut up. So much for quality under QS9000.

This kind of interaction doesn't make work a pleasant pursuit. Engineers should not be guided by incompetent QA's. The QS system is allowing this to happen.

 

[HVAC68]

Change with the times. I used to look at the computer with a frown initially, but over a period of time have realised that it's fun if you look at it differently. When I started off - even as a trainee engineer, I used to dictate letters to the secretary/steno-typist who would take it down in Pitman's shorthand and type it out in an Electronic typewriter. Over a period of time, with the advent of computers, the secretary/steno-typist was dispensed with and we started typing our own letters !!! My typing skills really came in handy. It's a question of changing with times and looking at the positive side of things.

HVAC68

 

[HgTX]

I don't think the initial complaint is about typing so much as increased paperwork-to-calculation ratio. Kind of like where I work they almost completely eliminated the human resources department, and now all the engineering managers spend most of their time dealing with HR stuff and barely touch engineering.

I suspect there's a way to streamline your ISO paper trail process, though I can't offer anything concrete. I know that the fabricators I work with are voluntarily increasing their paper systems because written SOPs really do help them with their quality systems. If it becomes part of the process rather than something to stuff in after the fact, it does go more smoothly.

Likewise, progress reports can be more manageable if you keep written notes updated; then it's a matter of cleaning it up a little & printing it out.

Hg

Eng-Tips guidelines: faq731-376

 

[Sparweb]

Take control of the paperwork. Don't just let the system rule your work day - write the process yourself.
Our company is growing from being a simple eng consulting firm into one that manufactures and sells retro-fit stuff for helicopters. In doing so, we had to become an "approved manufacturing facility" according to Transport Canada's guidelines. The previously informal buying of material and making of parts now must be documented extensively, all in the name of "traceability". Through the process we have maintained that the simplest method should be used. I have got a system working for us now that intrudes very little on daily affairs.
By defining the requirement of the quality system to match the capability of available software (the standard print-out of your book-keeping software, for example) you can make your purchasing and inventorying paperwork one and the same as the purchase order you would have given to your vendor. It avoids filling the same info onto three separate pieces of paper.

If you really want to rebel, another approach is to learn all the ins and outs of the system, all the rules, and everybody's limits, too. Then, when somebody up or down the line goofs something up, you can stick the paper back in their face. You've done your "job", others do more work on your behalf, when your boss asks why your project late, you can blame somebody else, and most of all, "quality" improves...


Steven Fahey, CET
"Simplicate, and add more lightness" - Bill Stout

 

[ScottyUK]

plasgears,

I share your pain with ISO9000. It can be done very well, so it aids the process, or it can become a bloated paper-munching dinosaur which stands defiantly in the way of progress and reason. I work for a company who has the latter version, largely because it was implemented by people with lots of political agendas, but no idea about the process they were designing ISO9000 to help. I have worked for companies with the former version of ISO9000 too, and it worked very well.

ajack1,

You are not alone in your observations. In my company, feeding the paper-munching dinosaur has become far more important to certain short-sighted managers than actually doing the job. It is a malaise that is sweeping though our country.



----------------------------------

If we learn from our mistakes,
I'm getting a great education!

 

[ctopher]

Most new Engineers I work with these days are not Engineers. They just have the title, pay, and deploma.
No wonder a lot of jobs are going overseas!

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP1.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site

 

[ajack1]

Maybe I overemphasised the ISO problem, our systems are really not that bad, but I just seem to be spending more and more time doing paperwork.

I have always worked in small companies so have never had anyone to do my secretarial duties and usually do reports and proposals in my own time at home away from the hustle and bustle of the office, I have no problem with this although it is not what I really enjoy or one of my strengths, as I am sure you will have worked out by now!!!!!

What really gets me down is trying to cut cost on everything and the lack of good engineers I deal with. In the past you would deal with people who knew their trade, talk through any problems and get a reasoned response, not always the one you want but an “honest” one.

Lately even when something is plainly wrong no one seems capable of solving it, you enter into a seemingly endless communication with everyman and his dog, with no one prepared to make a decision, probably for fear of the endless amount of paperwork it will create for them, When you finally do get a reply it is usually demanding another progress report !!!!

I have no desire to play company politics, to cover my back and pass the buck, one of the reasons I avoid larger concerns, I just seem to spend less and less time doing what I enjoy.

Has the engineering gone from engineering

 

[ctopher]

I call the Engineering dept "Operneering" now. All they do now is "operate" pc's and other little tasks. "Real" engineering is sent outside, a temp consultant is hired for the project, or a retired engineer is brought back for a couple months. The engineers hired in the last 2 years are just operators making very good money.

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP1.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site

 

[HgTX]

Regarding the lack of decent engineers...

If you don't mind being the one with your neck on the line for actually making a decision, is there any way you can build a network of competent engineers outside your company you can call on for advice (assuming they're not in direct competition with your company)?

Hg

Eng-Tips guidelines: faq731-376

 

[GeneratorGrrl]

What this 'revolution' has done, its certainly given people new respect for the workload of the secretaries that they used to take for granted p

I'm a minority: I actually don't mind the paperwork. I enjoy computers and I have some pride in being the most computer-efficient person on staff, so I get the paperwork done a lot faster and with fewer errors (so fast, I have time to come here and browse and occasionally post things ^_~ ) This is ironic, because my parents made me train as a secretary, but after the 'computer revolution', positions became harder to come by and highly competitive. Eventually I wound up training as a power engineer and got a lot more respect than I ever did as a secretary. My current position involves only a small amount of actual engineering (but by law requires a power engineer) and I'm not suited to being exploited on the shop floor, but I'm a whiz at the paperwork that nobody else wants to do. So here I am: With an engineer's certificate, doing the work of secretary and purchasing agent, for thrice the pay and respect! I even get to engineer now and then ^__^



"Eat well, exercise regularly, die anyways."

 

[HgTX]

Except the secretaries had 40 hours a week to devote to being secretaries. The engineers are expected to do that *and* still be engineers or managers or whatever.

I gotta question the economics of such decisions. At what point is the savings in overhead of eliminating those "pink-collar" positions used up by paying an engineering manager a much higher wage to do the same task?

Some changes make sense--for example, most people of my generation and younger don't compose longhand and then type it up; we compose right there at the keyboard. So although the Old Boys might miss the typists, we upstarts don't really know what we'd do with one if we had one. And it takes me less time to ferret out exactly which flights I want than go through Twenty Questions with the secretary about whether I'd prefer the 7:10 or the 7:50.

But if "real" engineering is outsourced everywhere, who's it outsourced to? Someone's still doing engineering. Surely it's not all going overseas.

Hg

Eng-Tips guidelines: faq731-376

 

[cowski]

If you don't mind being the one with your neck on the line for actually making a decision, is there any way you can build a network of competent engineers outside your company you can call on for advice (assuming they're not in direct competition with your company)?

Isn't that what this whole eng-tips site is here for?
I'm glad I found this site, I get lots of helpful advice, I like to help others, and it is somewhat comforting to know others are in the same boat as me (misery loves company - I guess).

 

[ajack1]

“If you don’t mind putting your neck on the line”

Is that not what engineering is all about? It is certainly the part I enjoy.

You are given a project and you come up with a solution, backed up with design, documentation, calculations and simulations, but being aware of what is not possible, if certain changes need to be made to the product is part of that. This is the area I find it increasing hard to find engineers that will “talk”. Any fool can stick a few things on a piece of paper having no idea if they will work or not and put it in someone else’s inbox.

 

[sms]

I'm still having lots of fun after 20 years, but you have to recognize that every job has it's fun and every job has some aspect to it that is a bummer. I don't particularly enjoy writing reports, especially routine ones. But it is just part of the job. As long as the fun stuff out weighs the bummer stuff, then carry on. When the balance goes the other way, time to look for something else.

 

[plasgears]

HgTX,

"...network of competent engineers..."

Good question. I have resolved knotty problems by consulting with suppliers. A supplier is plugged into many applications even with unknown competitors. We have had several worthwhile consultations with suppliers.

This is juxtaposed with consulting with "experts." Several consultants I have known turn out to be spoilers, giving ammunition to your boss to make asses out of his employees. One guy had such a bad reputation that he was vilified throughout the industry.

 

[cardoso115]

The problem with ISO9000 is that it introduces changes in the way companies are managed. The paperwork becomes a support for all the top management decisions.

But what really happens nowadays is that managers don't like being told what to do, so instead of following the ISO "advices", they just fill out the paperwork in order to get the ISO certification.
As I write this I'm staring at all the paperwork done during the last years at my company and got no evidence that it helped making a wise decision.


Another problem we face is that our QS manager is a real jerk with no knowledge what so ever of the production processes.

 

[PSE]

If I was not still enjoying my work, I would do something else entirely. ISO had a minimal impact on my work other than giving the occasional opportunity to run an audit. The "success" I have seen with ISO is with companies that used it as a way to trim out their beauracracies. There is nothing that states that once certified, you cannot change your procedures.

Much of the output of our profession is documentation. Either in the form of reports, drawings, procedures or programs. Technical secretaries and clerks may be gone from many places, but even in those days, I remember always checking again the results of their efforts.

Regards,