Do you stamp site visit reports during construction? 1

[gte447f]

Structural engineers, do you stamp site visit reports during construction? These are not Special Inspections. These site visits are to make observations for general conformance with the Construction Documents. The reports will usually include a description and some photos of the general progress/stage of the work, and include descriptions and photos of any observed non-conforming work (e.g. missing rebar or wrong stud spacing or something like that). These site visits are very periodic, maybe only 1 to 3 times during construction for small commercial projects. For some projects we perform no site visits. We have never stamped these, and I have seen architects issue similar reports without stamping. If it makes any difference, these reports are usually addressed to and delivered to the architect, since they are our client who is paying us for the service.

I have never thought much about stamping these types of site visit reports until recently when I have started to lean toward "everything an engineer does has to be stamped unless it is preliminary or not for construction or for information only or something to that effect".

What do others think? Please weigh in.

 

[XR250]

I believe in my state (NC), it either requires a stamp or text indicating is is "not a certified document".

 

[fel3]

gte447f....

I'm in California. Here is my experience and the requirements I work under.

In my nearly 40-year career, I have never stamped construction observation reports (CORs), although sometimes I would sign or initial them depending on company policy. My CORs were almost always hand-written and were typically routed to the project manager (if it wasn't me) and to the project file. I don't recall ever providing copies of CORs to anyone outside the company. Every place I have worked has considered CORs to be notes, not engineering documents, although nobody every explicitly stated this--it was just understood. On the other hand, if we had provided CORs to the client, a local agency, etc. as regular and required reports, then we would have had to stamp and sign them.

Recently, for a career first, I wrote CORs (typed this time, and with embedded photographs) that made it into an appendix to a report that WAS an engineering document. I was one of two engineers who wrote the report, but since I did most of the work I stamped and signed it. However, I did NOT stamp and sign the CORs themselves. In August I did some construction observation on a very large project for an earthwork test section to estimate soil shrinkage. The project was in an agricultural area, where the soils had been deep ripped in the past. The contract had been advertised and bid based on an estimated 10% shrinkage. The contractor had guesstimated about 25% shrinkage. The final test result was about 18% shrinkage. The guy who normally would have done the construction observations (a real geotechnical engineer) had just retired and I drew the short straw because I was the closest civil engineer in the company to the project site. Fortunately, the weather was mild and daytime highs never exceeded 103°F.

Here are the rules for California. The California Professional Engineers Act (2019), §6735 says the following:

"6735. Preparation, signing

, and sealing of civil engineering documents
"(a) All civil (including structural and geotechnical) engineering plans, calculations, specifications, and reports (hereinafter referred to as "documents") shall be prepared by, or under the responsible charge of, a licensed civil engineer and shall include his or her name and license number. Interim documents shall include a notation as to the intended purpose of the document, such as "preliminary," "not for construction," "for plan check only," or "for review only." All civil engineering plans and specifications that are permitted or that are to be released for construction shall bear the signature and seal or stamp of the licensee and the date of signing and sealing or stamping. All final civil engineering calculations and reports shall bear the signature and seal or stamp of the licensee, and the date of signing and sealing or stamping. If civil engineering plans are required to be signed and sealed or stamped and have multiple sheets, the signature, seal or stamp, and date of signing and sealing or stamping, shall appear on each sheet of the plans. If civil engineering specifications, calculations, and reports are required to be signed and sealed or stamped and have multiple pages, the signature, seal or stamp, and date of signing and sealing or stamping shall appear at a minimum on the title sheet, cover sheet, or signature sheet."​

I interpret this section to mean just what my various employers have understood: unless your CORs are actually engineering reports, then you don't need to stamp and sign them. And, by "engineering reports", I mean something that you will publish for a client or agency. CORs that are routed to the project file do not rise to this level and don't need to be stamped and signed. Just make sure your name, date, project name and number, and other relevant information are in the CORs and you should be good. On the other hand, there is nothing in the California law that prohibits stamping and signing CORs. Ultimately, the primary reason my CORs existed was in case there a lawsuit resulted from construction.

In California, at least, your second paragraph (I have never thought much about stamping these types of site visit reports until recently when I have started to lean toward "everything an engineer does has to be stamped unless it is preliminary or not for construction or for information only or something to that effect".) is not correct because "everything and engineer does" does NOT have to be stamped and signed.

Fred

==========
"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
--Winston S. Churchill​

 

[msquared48]

No, but if any new details are needed due to the site visit, then I stamp the additional details.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA, HI)

 

[Ron]

If it contains an engineering opinion, yes.

 

[GeoPaveTraffic]

Geotechnical engineer here, so a little different perspective.

I have done hundreds of site visits over the 30+ years and have never stamped a field observation report or daily memo. Instead these are typically grouped and forwarded to the client, and sometimes others, weekly or monthly with a cover letter. The cover letters may or may not be sealed, usually based on the requirements of the local building official. My experience is that most are not sealed.

Mike Lambert

 

[gte447f]

Thanks to those who have chimed in and shared their experience and opinion.

I just reviewed the Board rules in GA where I primarily practice, and, in my opinion, their rules are somewhat vague on the requirements of what documents must be stamped. Without retyping the entire text, the issue I see is a problem of circular logic in their definition of the word "issued". They define "documents" as "plans, drawings, maps, surveys, reports, specifications, design information, and calculations". Then they say that the registrant "shall seal, sign and date all original final documents which are issued to a client or any public agency". They do not define "final", but they define "issued" as "documents in the final form which bear the seal, signature and date of the registrant". So, final documents that are issued have to be stamped and signed, but issued documents are final documents that are stamped and signed. To me that is circular logic.

Semantics aside, later on the Board rules forbid issuing "draft, incomplete, preliminary, in-progress, or for-review documents", with a stamp, unless there is no signature and they are labeled as "PRELIMINARY", "DRAFT", "NOT FOR CONSTRUCTION or "FOR REVIEW ONLY". Personally, I just wouldn't stamp these documents, but I would go ahead and include the label also.

Regarding my original question about stamping site visit reports during construction, I think I will either start to stamp them, since after all stamping only certifies that I prepared them or they were prepared under my supervision, or I will start to label them "For Review Only", since that is really what they are in my practice because I prepare them for and send them to the architect as basically an FYI. What the architect does with them, who knows?

Thoughts?

 

[DaveAtkins]

In general, I only seal and sign documents (drawings, specifications, calculations, reports) which end up being issued to a regulatory agency (e.g, to get a building permit). I don't see the point of using my seal on anything else.

DaveAtkins