Do you think engineering is a "hands-on" career? 4

[MisterT1982]

Well I just graduated from Penn State last year with a BS in Electrical Engineering and did pretty well. I've been working for a large defense contractor as a field engineer for the past 6 months. While I thought the jobs would be very hands-on type of work, I was very mistaken. Most of the work done in the field is performed by union technicians so picking up a tool is a no-no. When doing headquarters work, most of the job is paper-pushing and documentation. Basically I'm like an overpaid secretary. I'm starting to think that this job, or perhaps this career was not the right choice for me.

I've always been fascinated by building and fixing things, as well as designing them. That, along with my ability for math and science, also my dad being an engineer, led me straight into engineering. I've always been into building things, be it electronics, carpentry, metalworking, welding. I'm starting to think that a job as an electrician, plumber, or industrial maintenance would be for me. Maybe move up the ladder later on to be a plant engineer. Decent pay, seeing the results of your work, and somewhat technically challenging.

Have any of you ever had this kind of experience, where being a paper-pushing, desk sitting engineer just wasn't fulfilling for you? Did you change jobs, careers, or what did you do? In all reality I'd like a job where I design, build and test everything. None of this structured beauracratic engineering with unions involved, where everybody has their specific strict role. Just like to get your thoughts on this. Thanks!

 

[ewh]

Your best bet would be to find a small company that needs your services. Engineers at smaller companies tend to wear several hats, and the opportunity for hands on work wolud be much better.

 

[Heckler]

When I worked in aerospace as a mechanical engineer we were required to spend time on the shop floor with our designs but again it's union so we couldn't touch stuff. The only time I got to touch my design was when it was in the R&D stage (prototype) but most one-of designs are considered prototype. I saw a lot of the Systems Engineers just pushing paper....must be a boring existance. We use to call them "Paperwork Pimps"

But aside from aerospace most of my jobs have been hands-on but paper work is a integral part of engineering.

Best Regards,

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
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[Twoballcane]

Well the problem is actually the union. In most big defense companies, their techs are union and there are some bad and good aspects and one bad aspect (from our stand point) is that we can not touch the hardware. So you can not get a “feeling” of how your design is being put together. But don’t worry, when the design fails, the hardware will be sitting on your desk for you to pick apart. It sounds like you just graduated and they have you pushing paper, this is normal, when management and the other engineers feel that you can design, you will get the chance. But if you can’t wait, like ewg said, you should join a smaller company with no union. They will make you hit the ground running. But, be careful, they may make you design and then build the product.

If you wanted more hands on, why don’t you become a tech?

Go Mechanical Engineering
Tobalcane

 

[Ashereng]

Are you saying that you now think that "ALL" engineering jobs are actually just pushing paper?

Your dad is an engineer. What did he tell you about what he did? About what engineering encompass?

Some engineering jobs are paper heavy, some are more hands-on. It depends on the specific job.



"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[ivymike]

At a former employer with a large union presence, we couldn't touch tools or parts in union facilities. To get around that, the company created "secret" validation and assembly sites completely devoid of union labor, where engineers could go mess with stuff as needed. The mini assembly line was completely staffed with "off-the-street" temp labor, so it was also a great test of your error-proofing ideas. It made for a fun afternoon when you'd take a trip to one of these sites.

 

[kontiki99]

As an entry level engineer at a large defense contractor, you might not be handed very much to do initially. Chances are, they have a pool of 30 lb brains someplace really making things happen.

You'll probably need more school to get in with the with those people.

Sometimes it’s a matter of getting on the right projects too.

Boeing (Ex Douglas) used to have a group of techs that were mostly BSEEs working alongside the union hangar guys to install and configure flight test instrumentation (non-production).

You may be so new to the company you aren’t even eligible for a transfer yet too.

Work hard, grow skills, acquire relevant credentials and look hard. I'm sure you'll find a spot either inside or not.

 

[MisterT1982]

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I had a feeling that working for a small company would be a good bet. Just graduating from college, it was difficult to find small companies in my interest areas who would hire entry level engineers. I resorted to the university career services, which no surprise, hosts large companies. I guess my ideal field would be in industrial automation/control systems, working with PLCs, motors, machinery, etc. It seems that there are some smaller companies like this doing system design and integration for manufacturing companies. I'd imagine that the engineers would be involved in all aspects of design, build, test, and installation.

 

[JStephen]

I work in a small company that is NOT union (also not defense related)- but it is not set up as a hands-on type place for engineers, either. I think the effect you are seeing is not so much a union/non-union thing as it is just being the way the place is organized.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Defense companies, and anyone else who serves a government, has to process a _lot_ of paper.

Maybe one percent of the paperwork you see has any technical content worth worrying about.

Unfortunately, it takes a trained engineer to recognize _which_ one percent _is_ worth worrying about.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[johnsmith2]

Mister,

I work at the small size company, aound 500 employee globally. Since I work in the R&D group, we need to design, analyze and do the hand-on jobs to test the prototype. Most of the time, I get my hand dirty when assembly the parts. Of course, it is more practical and "real" by touching your design, instead of playing in the computer. I strongly suggest to work at mid- or small size company.

 

[HVACctrl]

I think the union BS is just that- BS. ITs a bunch of over-paid, cry-baby patsies who do anything for big brother, who actually reaps all the benefits. Their time and usefulness has long past and the country will be a better place when they finally become extinct.

I ran into a bunch of the same crud when I was an engineering co-op at a chemical plant while still in school. A union technician (actually a planner) and I had to go out to the pipeline (a good mile away) and record some instrument data. My vehicle was on site, as was the custom with engineers and office workers, so we decided to take it. The planner had some tools and I offered to help him carry them to my car. He declined, citing the union rules. I then said, "man, are you sure your tools can ride in my car then?".

But I digress. A small company may be the way to go. I work with automation and control systems for commercial buildings- essentially for the HVAC industry. I began doing MUCH more hands-on stuff than I wanted. I have finally gotten away from that. But it is a small company and the opportunity to field work is always there. We have no uniton. The only problem with my industry (HVAC) is that it is typically low-paying. There are more people in the industry than needed and the technical aspects arfe very light in engineering so an actual degree is not usually needed. Hence, not the best pay.

Ed

 

[IRstuff]

Well, we are a defense contractor and we have no union labor.

Hand's on is good, up to a point. You should have the opportunity to test and integrate your own designs, so that you can better learn what not to do the next time around. However, as a design engineer, your skills are primarily honed and maintained by doing designs, so you need to keep your priorities straight.

TTFN

 

[keepinitcool]

As many people have indicated, a smaller company sounds more like what would fit your requirement. Although it always depends on the company, but many times in a small company you are just given some goal or project requirement and you have to "go" and get it done.

You should probably stay where you are for a little while as you pick up everything going on and find out from HR if there are any other positions more to your interest. Consider what your real job interests are in the long term. In the meantime, you should also study other opportunites and the requirements for those opportunities.

 

[handleman]

Even in large companies there can be departments that are more independent than others. I work for the in-house machine design/automation division of a tier 1 automotive supplier (non-union), and I get to do a good bit of hands-on work. When my design load's not too heavy I get to create and fine-tune robot programs and vision system programs. And I'm a mechanical. Our EEs do even more hands-on, debugging PLC programs, servos, etc. It sounds like you probably need to look for a non-union automation company. You'll see less union meddling in the South (I'm in Tennessee) than in the North if you're willing to relocate.

 

[GregLocock]

That's a good point. The automotive transplants in the South are non-union, and automotive (especially the assembly engineering side) gets to be as hands-on as you want.

My worst memory was spending half a shift running a bearing loading station, which greased and preloaded the wheel bearings.

That was about enough 'hands on' for a couple of years, for me! On the other hand, if anybody wants to know what a torque of 1.0 Nm is I can very quickly demonstrate it with my bare hand. I'll need to borrow the questioner's nose.





Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[UNLengineer]

If you are looking for Industrial Automation and Controls, then you could look for almost any chemical processing company that maintains reasonably small facilities. In these situations, you will be forced to work hands on with control valves, PLCs, etc. as there is typically no one else to do the work.

 

[HDS]

You could also work for the suppliers of the components such as PLCs or in machine design. A CNC is just a stand alone automated system. If you like to travel you might enjoy a field service or application engineering role. Oil and gas or electrical distribution might also be a good option for you to consider.

 

[Comcokid]

I've worked in a number of companies, and only once had a union that was on the facilities side of the company.

Doing electronics and RF design has required me at times to do a lot of hands-on unrelated to my normal work: Work on the line (during a ALL HANDS EMERGENCY big customer order), repair production machines (when the production techs couldn't figure it out), run mill and lathes to make special prototypes, and I even have painted walls twice (at two different companies) when special potential customers were comming through and they wanted to make the engineering spaces (i.e. dungeon) look nice.

 

[BelspringKen]

If you have only been there 6 months, give it some more time. One good thing about big companies is that they often offer training and certifications. See if you can get into some certifications in your field. Big firms often have good benefits, too. Try to learn all you can, and if you are still feeling underchallenged or underutilized, perhaps its time to start looking.