Do You Use What You Learned in School for Your Job? 40

[Christine74]

How frequently do you find yourself using something that you learned in college and applying to your job as an engineer?

Personally, the only time I use something from school at my job is when I use AutoCAD, which is practically never. Everything else I had to learn on my own. I've certainly never used any calculus, differential equations, FORTRAN, descriptive geometry, or just about any of the other classes I was required to take.

If experience is common, I wonder if all of these classes serve any purpose other than to weed out lazy and/or stupid students from the pool of potential engineers.

How about you? Do you actually use what you learned in school? How important do you feel your education was in training you how to perform your job?

-Christine

 

[Comcokid]

I remember in school several semesters of different methods of circuit analysis before they got the a method of circuit analysis that was more useful, and that I ocassionally use today.

However, one of the most interesting courses was an I took Mechanics of Materials which was taught by a Civil Engineering professor. An unusual elective course for a future Electrical Engineer studying RF and Communications theory. No - I don't remember much about Mohr's Circle, but the professor filled in the time talking about his engineering experiences in contractual cases, testifying as an expert in court, and projects that went bad. These things I can still remember today, and sometimes I even apply the experiences passed on by this Professor.

 

[JKStruct]

One of my grad school professors once told me that "most undergrad engineers graduate and only take with them stress is Mc/I and don't push on a rope."

I actually use a lot of my design courses now (Steel and concrete in undergrad, masonry, timber, prestressed, etc. in grad). And obviously statics and strength of materials daily. I can't say I still use double integrals to solve for deflection. But I will say I've learned most of what I know now OTJ.

Most undergrad curricula in civil involve taking Thermo, Water Resources, Circuits, Hydraulic Engineering, Fluid Mechanics, etc. and I know I don't use much of that material anymore (thank God I got that FE out of the way in undergrad!) But I do believe that, more than anything, those courses mold your mind to think a certain way -- to analyze a complex problem and work through a suitable solution... and that's what we, as engineers, are faced with daily. So I still will say they are beneficial.

Can't speak much for those catholic-university required theology courses I had to take though...

 

[Pressed]

I am continually surprised at how much I rely on what I remember from college, don't know the percentage, it's significant. Many people tell me that they don't utilize what they learned, but I find that hard to believe and worrisome.

Maybe it depends on how good of a memory one has, how enjoyable the college experience was to apply credit or if a practical example was used to explain the subject matter and retain it. etc....

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[flamby]

School is the foundation on which rest of our career develops. We may not be using it directly, but our further learnings were based on that, as HGTX stated. We use our rooms and rest rooms. Do we use the foundation of the building? Of course we do, be it indirectly.

Ciao.

 

[mendinho]

I am afraid I am a quite generalist engineer because I am a FEM user, a bridge designer and sometimes I am a flood river analist therefore I use most of the basic concepts of continuum mechanics, numerical methods, statictics, geometry, CAD, programming (Matlab and VisualBasic) and such.

There are lots of differential equations embedded in most of the engineering software and you must be aware of the meaning of them although you do not remember how to solve them.

http://NotOnlyBridges.blogspot.com

 

[epoisses]

"Many people tell me that they don't utilize what they learned, but I find that hard to believe and worrisome."

Well, yes and no. Maybe the 1% I mentioned in the beginning was exagerrated, and I do think it is after having read about restrooms and foundations, but I think the percentage depends a lot on whether you're in a specialist or a generalist career type. (Note by the way that using 1% of what you learned or using something you learned 1% of the time is not the same at all).

I would indeed not believe and worry about a researcher in e.g. heterogeneous catalysis who used what he learned at school only 1% of the time, but also would I not believe and worry about a CEO who spends 90% of his time using what he learned at school. If anyone at senior management level still ever does a Laplace transform, writes in C++ or runs an HYSIS simuliation, something is seriously wrong.

 

[RDK]

Mostly I learned how to think like an engineer in engineering school.

I always think like an engineer so I use 100% of what I learned in school every day.

However, most of the practical facts that I use I learned after school.


Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[Twoballcane]

"but I think the percentage depends a lot on whether you're in a specialist or a generalist career type. "

I think you hit the nail on the head. Many of the Mechanical Engineers that I work with are really at the nuts and bolts stage (generalist), trying to put together hardware to meet the demand. Once they have somthing (cradle stage), they call me in to do the thermal/dynamic analysis (specilalist)and then I report back on what they have is good or a recommendation to improve that was based on my calculations.

As said earlier, I feel that most college grads jump into the design and start working from a nuts and bolts point of view and like some strange illness they forgot their four years of college and never apply what they learned. Time slips by and before you know it they forgot most of their knowledge and start sending their work out to be analyized.

I do believe it is the prerogative of the grad to apply what they learned from the get go, if not, four years down the line you will send your design out to sombody that has the knowledg that you "once" had.

Please, apathy kills $100,000 (tuition) worth of college brain cells, use them or loose them.

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[dbooker630]

The most useful class to me is probably typing which I learned in 8th grade without letters on the keyboard.

As far as college, effective writing, statistics as a junior are still applied in my job.

As far as my metallurgist job, I would have to say the physics courses I still apply quite often.

Otherwise the most important part of college to me was learning how to manage time and how to solve problems. But I have no regrets at all.

 

[DaveVikingPE]

100% of what I've learned I seem to use some of the time.

 

[MRM]

In my career, I've had to use a lot more of the technical stuff I learned in college than I ever thought I would.

A few others have mentioned that what you actually use in the "real world" may be what you learned in college in disguise. For example, you probably use the fundamentals of calculus, i.e., the concept of changing rates with time, in more situations than you think. It may hardly ever be in a quantitative way, but the concept is used in some way in just about any engineering field.

Also what you have learned in the past is both very important and eerily subtle too somehow.

I once heard an analogy about this: You probably don't remember what you had for dinner on May 7, 1998, or June 10, 2001, or maybe even two days ago, but each of those meals, even though you remember nothing about them, allowed you to be physically nourished so that you could be alive today!

In the case on this thread, I think the same goes for mental “nourishment” too. You are who you are because of your past experiences to this point….I wonder if what we read, what we watch on TV, and the people we associate with have any bearing on who we will be in ten or twenty years?

 

[SomptingGuy]

I keep my university notes any text books at work. They are often thumbed. Sometimes I find that the stuff I blindly copied when 20 yrs old now makes sense so I'm glad I crawled in and copied from the overhead.

 

[MechanicalChef]

My job is mostly related to one process, so I'm not doing running numbers all day long, like a stress-engineer. When I do calculations, it typically relates to the machine (bolt-torques, keyways, static analysis). Though a circuits class many years ago is highly useful whenever I have to do some electrical troubleshooting or read a wiring diagram.

 

[KENAT]

I just spoke to someone who’s on an ASME committee which is looking at the gap between what they teach you at school and what employers expect you to have.

For instance it seems most new mechanical grads (at least in UK/US) can’t interpret a drawing, let alone create one or do a tolerance analysis. I know many will say this is the job of designers/drafters but even if you work somewhere with a drafter if it’s your project and you need to sign off on it isn’t it a good idea to generally understand it?

Maybe being intellectually superior the Engineering Grad should be able to teach themselves or pick it up quick but it is an example of a gap.

Twoballcane. If the new grads are doing this extra analysis on their own time great. However if doing it cuts into their productivity (new grad who analysis everything only designed one box this week, the ‘nuts and bolts’ generalist designed 10) then in the reality of the work place this won’t work out.

Sure they may discover that they don’t need to use 1/4 “ screws they can use #10s, in many situations this wont make a cost/safety impact that justifies the time spent.

I will admit I wish I’d done more analysis as I’ve fallen into your ‘nuts and bolts generalist’ category however my jobs haven’t needed it.

I’ve started doing a little when I have time and can justify it but when I have a several week backlog and they’ve just had layoffs doing a thorough stress analysis of a lightly loaded part which is essentially just a space holder isn’t a good use of my time.




KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[JsTyLz]

I think thats the key point KENAT, as the engineer the toughest/most important part of the job is making assumptions. I make assumptions on my prelim calcs for machine design because it takes me 1/10th of the time. When making those assumptions I make a prediction on whether the actual results should be higher or lower. But when I have 10 designs to complete and the sales department promised a production date, the assumptions start to become time dependent.

The art of engineering is balancing the scales of analysis and synthesis. Both are required for successful design, but the extent to which you oerform either depends on experience and time constraints.

 

[mendinho]

The relevant gap is not between what schools TEACH and what employers EXPECT but between what you have LEARNT and and what companies NEED.

http://NotOnlyBridges.blogspot.com

 

[Twoballcane]

kenat,

I agree with you that there has to be balance between the designing time and analysis time, however it is sad to see some bright kids to come in and get bog down by design details that a designer should be handeling and then four years later forgot everything they learned from college and now stuck doing what the company started them with. Now you have one expensive designer instead of sombody who can use their analysis methodes to improve the product.

As what you guys described as what the gap is between the college is teaching and company expecting. Interpret drawings and tolerance studies are "skills" that you pick up in industrie and every industrie is different, and the designer that worked in that industrie knows it...well...because s/he has been working in that industrie for awhile. Hay, even the designer had to start from some where to learn stuff like that, so why are the new grads hazed because they don't know how to read drawings or conduct a proper tolerance study from the start? I'm sure if you can read drawings in one industrie, you can not read drawings in another industrie.

"new grad who analysis everything only designed one box this week, the ‘nuts and bolts’ generalist designed 10"

It could also be that the grad's box is correct and the generalist has 10 incorrect boxes. If the product is just a box with some CCAs in it that will sit in a nice comfortable lab, I can see what you are saying. However, if the box has to survive Mil Specs that has some voilent enviorements or your life depends on this box not to over heat or reach its cycles to failure from some unknown forcing frequency (thermal/dynamic) I don't think it is as simple as that. I have seen some "flying off the vib table" failures from COTS manufactures who said that they have beefed up there product but doing so with out anaysis, just their designer's best guess. When I hear that there was no analysis done to make changes for a thermal/dynamic/static reason, I cringe.

For the flying off the table incedent, some company beefed up their brackets, which add more weight, which brought the product close to the forcing frequency, inturn added more Gs (bigger Q), and because of this failed the fasteners. And when on fastern goes and it starts to bonce of the table, well it turned out to be a good show. The desiger was there and he said "wow I did not see that coming".





Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[KENAT]

Twoballcane, before I posted I checked with a German Mechanical Intern.

He has done some drawing, tol analysis etc and even did a project on it.

So not every country expects you to pick it up in industry.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[asaxplayer]

what I learned in college that I apply to my work:
1) how to use excel to make nice looking graphs from really bad work

2) how to type reports

3) the importance of CYA

4) how to pull stuff out of my @$$ when needed (homework, reports, exams, etc.)

5) how to measure stuff

6) how to sketch

the funny thing is...i learned all that in a sophomore course...

 

[Ashereng]

I personally feel that my school education is very useful to my career, and I have used a lot of the things that I learned in school. In the many years since I graduated, of course I also had to learn a lot more in my career.

Believe it or not, I did use the following that I learned in school:
- FORTRAN, SOPL, Pascal, APL
- partial differential equations and how to solve them
- heat transfer, thermodynamics
- equipment sizing
- how to find information (various sources)
- estimation when I can't find the information I need (this is a big one for me)
- how to write a technical report
- how to interview for a job
- and the list goes on

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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